killabeez: (Duncan Methos negative space)
[personal profile] killabeez
Posting early this week, as I'm in Yosemite and will be heading out very early tomorrow for a long day of hiking. :) I do intend to catch up as soon as I sit still somewhere with internet access. (Also, squee, Alexis Denisof!)

6.04 Diplomatic Immunity
Original air date: October 26, 1997
Director: Richard Martin
Writer: James Thorpe

diplomatic.jpg

Synopsis: Duncan is torn when the wife of one friend is killed by another friend, who happens to be the son of a foreign diplomat and beyond the reach of law.

Episode Transcript: is here.

Please share your thoughts and reactions in comments. The master post for all discussion posts is here.

Date: 2016-09-11 07:41 pm (UTC)
valoise: (Default)
From: [personal profile] valoise
On the ending - for me it would have been better to end it with Duncan letting Willie go after defeating him. That extra bit where he goes back to offer the kid advice on what to do next was just dumb. He won't change and we know it, Duncan should have known it. Take it off and the show ends with Duncan looking strong, but merciful. Adding it just makes him look like a poor judge of human nature.

Date: 2016-09-11 07:42 pm (UTC)
jotribe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jotribe
Suddenly we're seeing all these other people Duncan is friends with. He has friends in high places. And he sure seems to have the run of the US Embassy. I have to comment - a sword fight on the US Embassy grounds? Yes, it's pre 9/11, but rly? Lol.

Same, son of a diplomat gone bad, as back in S1 Nowhere to Run. One of the writers must feel bad for diplomat kids?

I like Willie. He's the kind of fun scoundrel that Duncan gravitates towards. But he doesn't have the humanity that say Fitz has, or Amanda. Willie doesn't really care about the people he scams. I did like his wife, Mollie, though. It was fun seeing them young (love her 60s dress!) and then still having fun and in love 30 years later.

Duncan really was overly honorable in this ep. He was not at all realistic or compassionate – towards the son, or even towards Willie. I found myself annoyed with Duncan, which is not at all how I usually react. Duncan is really off kilter so far in this season. Understandable, I guess, but he's feeling a bit out of character to me.

ETA: Killa! You're hiking in Yosemite!! OMG, how wonderful. And how dedicated you are to get this posted for us, lol!
Edited Date: 2016-09-11 09:20 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-09-12 09:52 am (UTC)
emma_in_dream: (alexa)
From: [personal profile] emma_in_dream
Duncan really was overly honorable in this ep. He was not at all realistic or compassionate – towards the son, or even towards Willie. I found myself annoyed with Duncan, which is not at all how I usually react. Duncan is really off kilter so far in this season. Understandable, I guess, but he's feeling a bit out of character to me.

I also found it very irking that hisfriend kept saying again and again how good Duncan was and how easy it was for him to make decisions. Poor Duncan also looked uncomfortable at this as he is clearly not at the top of his game.

Date: 2016-09-12 04:58 pm (UTC)
pat_t: (hl sword)
From: [personal profile] pat_t
Aww, Methos and Alexa.

Date: 2016-09-12 10:44 am (UTC)
baronjanus: I was searching for the answer, it turns out it's rock and roll. Hugh Dillon Works Well With Others (Default)
From: [personal profile] baronjanus
Aw, disruptive baby Wes :)

Yay hiking, it sounds awesome.

Date: 2016-09-12 04:33 pm (UTC)
pat_t: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pat_t
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce before he became a Slayer Watcher.

Date: 2016-09-12 04:49 pm (UTC)
pat_t: (nf hang in there)
From: [personal profile] pat_t
I didn't understand Duncan letting Willie con him so easily about giving him money. He could have simply told him he couldn't stay at the barge.There was no reason to think Willie and Mollie were hurting for money. Especially, with their little gig. And, even though Duncan did mess up their latest hit, that didn't mean they were broke.

Duncan did make a good point that since Willie didn't know these people, he could have been causing them and their families horrible financial difficulties. Especially since it wasn't the driver's fault since Willie was literally waiting on the driver and slinging himself in front of the car. But, for the victim, it was pay or go through the legal system for possible vehicular homicide. Even if they weren't doing anything wrong, such as DUI (or drugs like Wesley), just being put through the system could cost their jobs, lawyers fees, and all types of problems. But, Willie abused that, and could have really hurt some of these people.

To me that didn't make him a likable or sympathetic character. The same goes for Mollie. She knew what she was doing; I don't care that they were still giggly about how badly they were hurting other people 30 years later.

The first thing I thought about was the season 1 episode where the diplomat's kid raped the daughter of an Immortal. This was a unique story, though, so I could forgive them that. They probably could have done the same story without it being a diplomat's son though.

But, I did like the fact that Duncan turned away when Willie started that "we're friends - no hard feelings" routine after Duncan let him go. Duncan made it clear that they were no longer friends. It was also pretty clear that next time Willie wouldn't be given a free pass.

I hate for anyone to be killed, but Mollie wasn't an innocent. She was extorting money from innocent people. She was finally called on it. Yes, in a brutal way. I would much rather see her sent through the court system. Did it never occur to her or Willie that someone might have been so honorable that they were willing to call 911 and get the police and ambulance involved, only for everyone to see Willie survive? It happened, but Duncan was there to intervene. That was certainly lucky for 30 years that it didn't happen before then.
Edited Date: 2016-09-12 05:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-09-14 03:45 pm (UTC)
hafital: (HL - Duncan rooftop)
From: [personal profile] hafital
Duncan always finds himself in these conundrums.

My memory of this episode was that I never had much sympathy for Willie, but upon rewatching I thought him initially quite charming. At least in the 60s scene, I was like, oh, he's kind of cute. But then after Wesley kills Molly and Willie starts to spiral, I was like oh right. That's why I didn't like him, or didn't care, rather. I sympathize with Duncan, though, tying to help his friends, both of them -- he feels the loss of Molly, 30 years together, I'm sure he's thinking of Tessa, also killed by a drugged out youjng person, although under different circumstances. There are enough similarities there. And after losing Richie as he did. So, I get why Duncan wants to help, why he's torn, and why it's a difficult situation for him to navigate between 2 different friends.

But, I can't say I care much for Willie. This plot device is used all the time and I've never been a fan of it -- the 'so filled with revenge, become so unreasonable, they kill the wrong person' plot device. I think it's supposed to read as tragic but it just reads to me as weak. Especially when they're partially responsible for their loved one's death. ew.

Anyhoo, hate to see Duncan struggling with people who aren't worth it, which is maybe the real frustration of the episode, but I found his actions pretty much in character, and it was interesting to see what it took to make him finally take his sword out.

Also, he looks AMAZING. Like, seriously, he was so handsome in this episode.

Date: 2016-09-14 10:18 pm (UTC)
jotribe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jotribe
Also, he looks AMAZING. Like, seriously, he was so handsome in this episode.

I know, right?! Damn distracting, lol!

Date: 2016-09-15 06:32 am (UTC)
hafital: (HL - Thinking Methos)
From: [personal profile] hafital
(I mentioned something about that when I watched Sins of the Father a few days ago. S6 Duncan is really beautiful to me.)

Seriously! He's flat out stunning in every scene. I mean, he's gorgeous on a bad day, but season 6 has like a special light to it, all Mediterranean like goldenness or something. Maybe because it looks like they filmed in summer? Maybe it's just the haircut, which suits him imo? I don't know. I'm not complaining!

eta to add: huuuugs you so muuuuucccchhhh {{{{{killa}}}}}}
Edited Date: 2016-09-15 06:33 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-09-15 01:59 am (UTC)
movingfinger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] movingfinger
A ton of people lost their jobs in embassy security after this episode's shenanigans, no doubt.

Willie is one of the predator immortals. He's less discriminating about his targets than Amanda, which makes his predation more obvious.

Another point about this trick of his and Mollie's, though, is that by the time we see them doing it in the 90's, it's reeeeally close to the expiration date. Willie is also one of the immortals for whom adapting to changed times isn't easy, it seems.

Date: 2016-09-15 04:41 pm (UTC)
movingfinger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] movingfinger
I think it's the indiscriminate nature of the Willie-Mollie scam that makes it repugnant. Amanda and Cory prefer to go where the big money is, and it's hard to feel sorry for a bank as an institution, or a jewelry store, or a super-rich socialite. They have more empathy for mortals, and Willie shows none here.

Duncan does come off as lonely, yes, and vulnerable, he's been shaken and he wants to be comforted by connections to other people, but his fallbacks aren't around. Amanda is away and a lot of the other immortals he leaned on are dead, some because of his past or present choices.

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