(And resisting the temptation to entitle this 'Horsey keep your tail up'.)
Article in today's Guardian on the controversial movie that attempts to humanise the bizarre world of zoophilia.
Devor decided that a highly stylised approach would be the most effective to counter the widespread dismissal of these men and their orientation. Anyone seeking titillation will be disappointed. "I aestheticised the sleaze out of it," says Devor.
Which makes me go hmmmm... in a dubious tone. A problematic choice, surely?
And on the relationship between the animals' visible arousal and actual consent - did they really want to have sex with a human? I think we should be told.
Problematic, and rather creepy. I think there is a distinction to be made between having loving and caring relationships with animals, and using them for sex. The arguments seem very similar to those sometimes invoked to justify paedophilia.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 01:46 pm (UTC)I allowed as how I simply didn't have an answer to that.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 02:25 pm (UTC)However, the eating and killing of same goat? I'm sure it can't and wouldn't give consent to that either. So now I'm flummoxed.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 05:12 pm (UTC)If non-consensual canabalism was a serious problem, it's possible that people would be a bit disturbed by any sort of meat eating, even eating goats. But, at the moment, that's not really an issue.
Non-consensual sex, on the other hand, is something that's a live concern. So people get a bit squicked out by people for whom consent clearly isn't something that they need before intercourse.
Or at least, that's my theory.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 06:06 pm (UTC)I'd have asked that person why it's so awful to rape death-row convicts, then. I mean hey, we're going to kill them, and unlike the poor goats, we even (theoretically) think they deserve it. Some people would hold up "human dignity" to explain why it is Just Not the Same, but I don't think one can defend goat-molestation and posit a special human dignity at the same time; it just doesn't work.
Anyway the fact that we can kill and eat animals compounds the offense, it doesn't lessen it. The more power we have over a creature, the more grotesque it is to sexually exploit it. I mean, this is why people are horrified at the sexual abuse of comatose hospital patients, even if they don't think the victims will ever know about it. Also most people at least pretend to believe that sex of whatever variety is properly performed between more-or-less equal partners; if somebody's comfortable fucking a living being they would have no problem butchering and consuming, that would suggest a lot of things to me, all of them horrible.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 07:43 pm (UTC)The squick factor here I think is not so much in the actual act of sex with an animal (though that might be dangerous for both animal and human health), I think, as in the zoophile's notion that the animal is somehow consenting to this (and enjoying it).
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 02:52 pm (UTC)They are exactly the same.
I used to hang out on equestrian forums, and at some point, if you do that long enough, and are unlucky enough, you will come across zoophiles justifying themselves. To my ear, there was absolutely no distinction between the reported justifications of pedophilia and theirs - it's all about 'having loving relationships' with someone who 'gives sublimal signals that they are willing cooperators'.
And yes, the brain bleach would have been quite handy.
On the one hand, I get the impression that, well, I used to live in the country where the men are men and the sheep are nervous. It's happened before, it will happen again, and at least they're not molesting children or obsessing about adults.
On the other hand, the justifications are close enough that I feel a deep sense of unease regardless. The zoophiles were bad enough; but when the discussion suddenly turned and began to justify pedophilia - after all, exactly the same arguments were used for both - I felt extremely uneasy, not to mention violated, and that is why I cannot regard zoophilia as a mostly harmless eccentricty.
On a much more practical level, small dogs that hump everything in sight might be amusing, but a doberman-sized dog - or a stallion/gelding - that has been conditioned to think of humans as being involved in sex is decidedly dangerous.
Breeding stallions are difficult enough to handle at times without the possibility to transfering that behaviour to anyone who might encounter the horse in stable or field.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 06:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 03:46 pm (UTC)However, once consent is argued (for things which the animal might find as painful as being killed - I am aware of the sexual assaults on horses which happen regularly), the animal is given a status of human adulthood which can be used to justify a lot of abuse.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 06:58 pm (UTC)