Talk:Metropolitan statistical area

Portland's real population

Portland, OR real population in 2020 was 2,208,009 and in 2024 the real estimate was 2,509,925 according to the census. So it would be great if editors could come together to fix this issue. The census page is: https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/popest/2020s-total-metro-and-micro-statistical-areas.html

It would be great if ya'll could fix this! Yeehaw1112 (talk) 22:43, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

That's not what the link provided says. The estimate base was given as 2,512,850 for 2020, and the 2024 number is given as 2,537,904. Perhaps the metro was redefined sometime in between 2020 and 2025, which is what often happens. I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from. Criticalthinker (talk) 09:01, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

If it's based on the most recent defined MSAs, it should reflect the 2023 annual estimates. (Vintage 2022 estimates) – The Grid (talk) 13:22, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

oh so these are the 2023 estimates not even the 2024? Yeehaw1112 (talk) 17:13, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Why was this a reply to me? Criticalthinker (talk) 06:38, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

That's the CSA population not the MSA Portland's MSA was 2,208.009 in 2020 and 2,509,925 in 2024. The CSA also includes Salem which is consistently losing population that's why what you guys are looking at is wrong. Yeehaw1112 (talk) 17:15, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Basically what I'm saying is that's the CSA not MSA population Yeehaw1112 (talk) 17:19, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

also any AI can tell you the right facts too if you insert that link and tell it too give you portland's MSA population if you can't find it yourself Yeehaw1112 (talk) 17:23, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I'm typically the one that updates these figures annually. Every 5 years, (years that end with 3 and 8), the US Census Bureau redefines its boundaries for each of its statistical areas: metropolitan, micropolitan, and combined. These three types of statistical areas are defined by county boundaries, so the populations for each of these statistical areas is the combined population of the counties that comprise them. In 2023, the US Census Bureau redfined the boundaries for the statistical areas which can be found here: https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdf Also, every year, the US Census Bureau releases annual estimates of the population of the statistical areas usually around March, but they're a year behind. So at the beginning of 2025, the 2024 estimates were released. This coming March, they will release the 2025 estimates. At the time that the 2023 estimates were released (in March of 2024), in conjunction with the redefinition of the statistical areas, I took the initiative to "correct" the 2020 Census count for each of the statistical areas when I was updating the annual estimates. This means I went through the document, county by county, and took the sum of their 2020 populations to create the new 2020 Census count. This is because it would create a better means of comparison showing growth (i.e., if an MSA added 2 new counties in 2023, its growth rate would likely appear to be quite a bit higher compared to its original 2020 Census count, which had excluded those counties. By including those 2 new counties in the original 2020 count, it creates a more accurate detail of the growth comparison). I may have to go back through the document and manually add up the 2020 Census counts for each statistical area again because there have been a lot of people attempting to "correct" the population counts in these pages based on local government or media estimates or approximations, and in this page (along with the micro and combined pages), we use official US Census Bureau data as they are the official enumerators of American population statistics. I hope this clears up any confusion. Perhaps, I should've started a discussion thread on here at the time I decided to readjust the 2020 Census counts for each statistical area, but that's what I did. If anyone has any input on that, I'm happy to hear it. But as for now, the population counts should remain as they have been according to the most recent Census Bureau estimates and the recalculated 2020 Census counts using the most recent statistical area delineations. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 18:53, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

But you don't have to do anything for 2020, it should be coming from the actual census. The 2020 estimate would be based on the growth rate of 2010-2019 (unless I'm confusing you stating the new estimate compared to the 2020 census; I have Sarasota metropolitan area as my own example) If there's a new county added or removed, I would not show the growth/decay percentage. It will readjust the next census. – The Grid (talk) 21:41, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

I think you may be confusing what I'm saying. The 2020 numbers provided on this page are not estimates, they are the official Census counts for the counties comprising the statistical areas, only updated to retroactively include/exclude counties in the new definitions that were not included/excluded in the old definition. For example: in 2020, the Sioux Falls metropolitan area was defined as Minnehaha, Lincoln, Turner, and McCook counties, all in South Dakota, with official Census counts of 197,214, 65,161, 8,673, and 5,682 (respectively) for a total of 276,730. In 2023 when the delineations were redfined, Rock County, Minnesota was added to the Sioux Falls MSA. Therefore, I adjusted the 2020 Census count on this page to 286,434 to account for the 9,704 Census count for Rock County. That way, the 2023 and 2024 estimates (which already include Rock County) are being compared more accurately to what the 2020 Census would have shown had Rock County originally been included in the definition back then. I did this for each of the metro/micro/combined statistical pages when the delineations were updated, I retroactively adjusted the official 2020 Census counts to reflect the current boundaries. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 01:59, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Ok I think I got it. It makes more sense than what Yeehaw was doing. – The Grid (talk) 12:37, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

I can (and should, and will) add a footnote to the 2020 Census column explaining that the 2020 Census counts have been adjusted to retroactively reflect what they would've been had the current boundary definitions been in effect at the time. Is that decent verbiage? I've also thought about making each line in the chart expandable to list each of the individual counties that comprise the statistical areas for further detail. I may mess around with a template and post on the talk page if I think I have something decent for further input. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 16:24, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

I understand what you have dome. I do think you need to make it abundantly clear somewhere what you have done, as casual readers will usually not be familiar with the process by which MSAs/CSAs are defined/redefined. As a side note, I blocked Yeehaw for edit warring, so he cannot reply here until tomorrow. Donald Albury 17:57, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

I noticed. During my last few reverts, I mentioned in the edit summary to continue referring to the talk page for explanation because I didn't want to get into an edit war. I understand the warning, though. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 23:59, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Be careful. You had exceeded three reverts in 24 hours, but I didn't block you because you had not been warned. The exceptions to what constitutes edit warring are very limited, and I do not believe the edits here qualified. Donald Albury 15:46, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Adding county or county-equivalents that define the MSA to the chart

I'm considering going through this chart (as well as the micro area and CSA page charts) and adding in a column that lists each county or county-equivalent that defines the statistical area in a collapsible list format. Something like this:

The 387 metropolitan statistical areas of the United States

Metropolitan statistical area	2024 estimate	2020 census	% change	Composite counties or equivalents	Encompassing combined statistical area
New York–Newark–Jersey City, NY-NJ MSA	19,940,274	20,081,935	−0.71%	List Kings County, NY (Brooklyn) Queens County, NY (Queens) New York County, NY (Manhattan) Suffolk County, NY Bronx County, NY (The Bronx) Nassau County, NY Westchester County, NY Bergen County, NJ Essex County, NJ Middlesex County, NJ Hudson County, NJ Monmouth County, NJ Ocean County, NJ Union County, NJ Passaic County, NJ Morris County, NJ Richmond County, NY (Staten Island) Somerset County, NJ Rockland County, NY Sussex County, NJ Hunterdon County, NJ Putnam County, NY Pike County, PA	New York–Newark, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA
Los Angeles–Long Beach–Anaheim, CA MSA	12,927,614	13,200,998	−2.07%	List Los Angeles County, CA Orange County, CA	Los Angeles–Long Beach, CA CSA
Chicago–Naperville–Elgin, IL-IN MSA	9,408,576	9,449,351	−0.43%	List Cook County, IL DuPage County, IL Lake County, IL Will County, IL Kane County, IL Lake County, IN McHenry County, IL Porter County, IN Kenosha County, WI Kendall County, IL DeKalb County, IL Grundy County, IL Jasper County, IN Newton County, IN	Chicago–Naperville, IL-IN-WI CSA

Any thoughts? It would make the table kind of cluttered and I don't know if then deleting the "Encompassing combined statistical area" column could be an option, or some kind of formatting fix? Should the counties be listed in order of population (as I have them here) or alphabetically? Should the population figure be listed in parentheses after each county listed? Coulraphobic123 (talk) 03:25, 25 October 2025 (UTC) Coulraphobic123 (talk) 03:25, 25 October 2025 (UTC)

This is clutter, IMO. I do not believe this is necessary or helpful, on net. Criticalthinker (talk) 08:57, 25 October 2025 (UTC)

Question 2

Are we using the 2024 estimates or the 2020 census numbers as the population size of metropolitan statistical areas. It seems to make perfect sense to update them to 2024, provided those number are considered reliable (and I'm unsure about that and looking for some input on it). Thanks very much. ~2025-32118-18 (talk) 15:55, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

They are both on there. There's a 2020 Census column (that is never changing) and an estimates column (that changes when each year's estimates are released each spring by the US Census Bureau). The current estimates listed are for 2024 as noted at the top of the column. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 17:20, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

There are some cases in which the OMB definition of the metro area has changed since the 2020 census. If the metro area boundaries have changed, a recent estimated population for the area may not correctly represent the change from the 2020 census. It seems that there have been attempts to adjust the 2020 base population for some metro areas to reflect the changed boundaries. I am not sure which areas have had such adjustments made. Donald Albury 00:29, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

The 2024 population estimates are from the US Census Bureau's annual population estimates that are released each spring. These estimates take into account current OMB boundary definitions. When the OMB changed the boundary definitions in 2023, I manually adjusted the 2020 Census population counts to retroactively reflect the new boundaries. Therefore, each of the 2020 Census population counts in this table are what the 2020 Census would've shown the population to be if the current boundary definitions were in place at that time. That way, the growth rate is more accurately compared to the 2024 Census estimate that utilizes the current OMDB boundaries. Coulraphobic123 (talk) 01:40, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

And to be clear, this isn't just some decision we've made on wikipedia; this is what the Census Bureau does, as well. The data is retroactively updated when delineations are updated. Criticalthinker (talk) 08:33, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Metro area populations.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:11, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

The new 2025 U.S. Census Bureau Statistics

The new statistics shown here, which are from the U.S. Census Bureau(I assume), aren't nessecarily accurate. It's very likely Miami is still the 6th largest metro area in the U.S. by population, but it's labeled as the 8th largest here since the Census Bureau began slashing international migration numbers by like 50%. Since Miami's growth is a lot more dependent on international migration than Atlanta's growth is, it was more greatly affected by this move than Atlanta was. I wonder if we can mention somewhere on this wikipedia page about how the U.S. Census Bureau has been beginning to slash intl migration umbers by 50%. Starlyrra (talk) 20:59, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

The problem is that, as far as I know, the Census Bureau is the only reliable source for the population of all places in the U.S. (There may be other reliable sources for individual places, but we cannot compare populations for different places based on different sources.) Can you point to any reliable sources that discuss changes to how the Census Bureau is estimating population, and what the effect of such changes is? Donald Albury 22:57, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting using a "more reliable" source, I was suggesting the idea of adding how in 2026, the U.S. Census Bureau began cutting new international migration numbers by 54%. Starlyrra (talk) 03:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Well then that's a question you'd want to take up with the Census Bureau or ask on reddit or somewhere else. It's not really relevant, here. Criticalthinker (talk) 04:35, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

If that's the case that migration numbers are being cut as of 2026, then those numbers will be reflected in the 2026 estimates which will be released a year from now.Coulraphobic123 (talk) 08:19, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Total polpulation change

Should someone add the total population change to the chart, not just percentage change? A smaller metro with the same growth as a bigger metro will have a greater percent change just due to statistics. I think there should be another column to show absolute change. Traininteriorguy (talk) 02:22, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Done! AwesomeSaucer9 (talk) 04:21, 21 April 2026 (UTC)