GoT 1x02, take 2
Apr. 26th, 2011 09:46 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
marinaMan, so I sort of feel like taking about the parts of Game of Thrones 1x02 that I did like? Because there were a lot of good parts! Most of it was not made of fail! I really enjoyed it! I need to flail a bit to make myself feel better.
Tyrion
OMG TYRION WAKING UP WITH THE DOGS. Tyrion bitchslapping Joffrey! OMG LOVE LOVE LOVE. I'd forgotten we once had THIS Tyrion, fun and carelessly assholish and not so much tragic (come on, in this series you know it's just a matter of time before you learn how truly tragic EVERYONE'S existence is). I also love that he's, just as he was in book 1, amgiuous in his political leanings. That is, he seems like an OK guy? But he's also very shrewd and on Cersei and Jaime's side and has no particular interest in being nice or saving anyone.
The family Lannister!
Oh, Tyrion.
Jon
Jon! My favorite bit with him was the scene by the fire or whatever, where he sits by those convicted rapists and Tyrion's just like LIKE YOUR NEW BROTHERS, EH? And Jon just sort of looks at Benjen with a tiny sliver of hope - like, if he can only cling to him it'll be OK, he won't be disgraced, he won't be harmed, he won't have to live with the harsh reality of the Wall. He'll still get to be noble and important and kind and do good work. Like uncle Benjen does. And maybe one day he'll even rise through the ranks and BE uncle Benjen. And oh, wouldn't that be glorious, a place for him at last.
I love that bit because it's so reminiscent of the actual book - unlike the rest of Jon's portrayal - where Jon was much more desperate and wrecked and in a state of despair over his future. At last we begin to see the true horror of what he's been condemned to. Something between a prison colony and a monastery.
Catelyn
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOE INTERNET you will never understand the true level of my hatred for Catelyn. So, I was really looking forward to the scene with her and Jon at Bran's bedside because that is SUCH A KEY SCENE for both her and Jon and they went and changed it, ahahaha. I'm cool with the change, I mean whatever, they're clearly cleaning up Catelyn's characterization and she's clearly this adaptation's version of Aragorn - awesome in the movies, unbearable in the books.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, in the book Jon - who is 14, you'll remember, and just been informed that without his consent he's going to the Wall (actually I wish they'd kept in those bits where Ned and Catelyn decide who gets to go and who gets to stay and Catelyn basically tells Ned HELL NO she will not have Jon here while he's away, he'll have to send him somewhere) - comes to say goodbye to Bran and Catelyn's there. Jon has this really tearful, sad goodbye speech, he basically has no idea if he'll ever get to see Bran or the rest of his siblings ever again, and Catelyn looks up at him and goes "It should have been you, lying on this bed instead of Bran."
And Jon just sort of silently takes it, and accepts, as in the books he's MUCH less into defying and mouthing off to and about Catelyn than he in the show, and you realize THIS IS WHAT HE GREW UP WITH, this woman who has literally never seen him as anything but a stain on her honor, who wishes him dead, and you're like WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL.
And I hate Catelyn so bad you guys. Not because she was mean to him - I'm not a huge Jon fan or anything - but because she's... this assholish, prudish hypocrite who keeps going on about how she's the ~perfect wife and mother~ when in fact she can't see past her desire for a perfect picturesque life and just #TG#%Y$E%YT^$YGH CAN NOT. And her bullshit with Rob later on and how she's always like ~BEING PROPER~ ugh, fuck that shit. We've already seen on the show how well that upbringing's worked out for Sansa.
Anyway, clearly on the show they're cleaning her up and making her way more awesome and more... misguided than an outright asshole, so. Whatever, it's a characterization choice, I'll roll with it.
EVERYONE AT KING'S LANDING
OMG PERFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT. Sansa and Arya and Joffrey and Cersei and the butcher's boy and Robert and Ned, stupid, impotent Ned, who for about 5 seconds came across as a powerful and brain-having father (but then it passed, don't worry!). Oh Sansa, my heart aches for you. You are in for such an awakening, child.
PERFECT ARYA IS PERFECT
LADY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D: DOGGIE DOGGIE DOGGIE! Ugh. I was really hoping, for about 5 seconds there, that this Ned would be something other than a dolt and find a way to save the direwolf. IT SEEMS NOT.
I love how Sansa's all ;_____________________________; and Arya's just like BITCH, ONE DAY. ONE DAY, JUST YOU WAIT. AS LONG AS I'M TALL ENOUGH TO REACH ALL THE DOOR HANDLES, YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS.
MATCH MADE IN HELL
Jaime and Cersei
PERFECT JAIME IS PERFECT
So, the story of Cersei's first child being dead was not in the books. IDK if this means they've changed her characterization or if she's meant to be lying - I'd say the former, personally, with a healthy dose of the latter. IDK IDK I'm sensing a story behind the story she told. And if not, it'll be interesting to see how it fits into her characterization in later books.
PERFECT CERSEI IS PERFECT
Oh, Jaime, I love that they added that little scene with him and Jon. LOL poor Jon who's not used to sarcasm (raised by morons, sorry to say) and so is just UTTERLY UNEQUIPPED for that battle of wits. But mostly I loved it because Jaime, who's wearing his Kingsguard white, is mocking Jon who's about to take on his Night's Watch black.
AN UNARMED OPPONENT
I mean when Jaime goes: "Give my regards to the Night's Watch. I'm sure it must be thrilling to serve in such an elite force. And if not... it's only for life." I'm not sure if he's just mocking Jon, is bitter about the course his own life has taken or condescending Jon as one person in an elite force whose members forego title and progeny to another. The Night's Watch really must seem like a pathetic version of the Kingsguard to Jaime? Poor bastards are doing the same thing only they're stuck at the end of the world instead of being warm and politically situated in the capital.
One's black and the other one's white, get it?
DOGGIES
DOGGIE SPAM
;___________________;
And ok some scenery porn:
Tyrion
OMG TYRION WAKING UP WITH THE DOGS. Tyrion bitchslapping Joffrey! OMG LOVE LOVE LOVE. I'd forgotten we once had THIS Tyrion, fun and carelessly assholish and not so much tragic (come on, in this series you know it's just a matter of time before you learn how truly tragic EVERYONE'S existence is). I also love that he's, just as he was in book 1, amgiuous in his political leanings. That is, he seems like an OK guy? But he's also very shrewd and on Cersei and Jaime's side and has no particular interest in being nice or saving anyone.
The family Lannister!
Oh, Tyrion.
Jon
Jon! My favorite bit with him was the scene by the fire or whatever, where he sits by those convicted rapists and Tyrion's just like LIKE YOUR NEW BROTHERS, EH? And Jon just sort of looks at Benjen with a tiny sliver of hope - like, if he can only cling to him it'll be OK, he won't be disgraced, he won't be harmed, he won't have to live with the harsh reality of the Wall. He'll still get to be noble and important and kind and do good work. Like uncle Benjen does. And maybe one day he'll even rise through the ranks and BE uncle Benjen. And oh, wouldn't that be glorious, a place for him at last.
I love that bit because it's so reminiscent of the actual book - unlike the rest of Jon's portrayal - where Jon was much more desperate and wrecked and in a state of despair over his future. At last we begin to see the true horror of what he's been condemned to. Something between a prison colony and a monastery.
Catelyn
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOE INTERNET you will never understand the true level of my hatred for Catelyn. So, I was really looking forward to the scene with her and Jon at Bran's bedside because that is SUCH A KEY SCENE for both her and Jon and they went and changed it, ahahaha. I'm cool with the change, I mean whatever, they're clearly cleaning up Catelyn's characterization and she's clearly this adaptation's version of Aragorn - awesome in the movies, unbearable in the books.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, in the book Jon - who is 14, you'll remember, and just been informed that without his consent he's going to the Wall (actually I wish they'd kept in those bits where Ned and Catelyn decide who gets to go and who gets to stay and Catelyn basically tells Ned HELL NO she will not have Jon here while he's away, he'll have to send him somewhere) - comes to say goodbye to Bran and Catelyn's there. Jon has this really tearful, sad goodbye speech, he basically has no idea if he'll ever get to see Bran or the rest of his siblings ever again, and Catelyn looks up at him and goes "It should have been you, lying on this bed instead of Bran."
And Jon just sort of silently takes it, and accepts, as in the books he's MUCH less into defying and mouthing off to and about Catelyn than he in the show, and you realize THIS IS WHAT HE GREW UP WITH, this woman who has literally never seen him as anything but a stain on her honor, who wishes him dead, and you're like WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL.
And I hate Catelyn so bad you guys. Not because she was mean to him - I'm not a huge Jon fan or anything - but because she's... this assholish, prudish hypocrite who keeps going on about how she's the ~perfect wife and mother~ when in fact she can't see past her desire for a perfect picturesque life and just #TG#%Y$E%YT^$YGH CAN NOT. And her bullshit with Rob later on and how she's always like ~BEING PROPER~ ugh, fuck that shit. We've already seen on the show how well that upbringing's worked out for Sansa.
Anyway, clearly on the show they're cleaning her up and making her way more awesome and more... misguided than an outright asshole, so. Whatever, it's a characterization choice, I'll roll with it.
EVERYONE AT KING'S LANDING
OMG PERFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT. Sansa and Arya and Joffrey and Cersei and the butcher's boy and Robert and Ned, stupid, impotent Ned, who for about 5 seconds came across as a powerful and brain-having father (but then it passed, don't worry!). Oh Sansa, my heart aches for you. You are in for such an awakening, child.
PERFECT ARYA IS PERFECT
LADY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D: DOGGIE DOGGIE DOGGIE! Ugh. I was really hoping, for about 5 seconds there, that this Ned would be something other than a dolt and find a way to save the direwolf. IT SEEMS NOT.
I love how Sansa's all ;_____________________________; and Arya's just like BITCH, ONE DAY. ONE DAY, JUST YOU WAIT. AS LONG AS I'M TALL ENOUGH TO REACH ALL THE DOOR HANDLES, YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS.
MATCH MADE IN HELL
Jaime and Cersei
PERFECT JAIME IS PERFECT
So, the story of Cersei's first child being dead was not in the books. IDK if this means they've changed her characterization or if she's meant to be lying - I'd say the former, personally, with a healthy dose of the latter. IDK IDK I'm sensing a story behind the story she told. And if not, it'll be interesting to see how it fits into her characterization in later books.
PERFECT CERSEI IS PERFECT
Oh, Jaime, I love that they added that little scene with him and Jon. LOL poor Jon who's not used to sarcasm (raised by morons, sorry to say) and so is just UTTERLY UNEQUIPPED for that battle of wits. But mostly I loved it because Jaime, who's wearing his Kingsguard white, is mocking Jon who's about to take on his Night's Watch black.
AN UNARMED OPPONENT
I mean when Jaime goes: "Give my regards to the Night's Watch. I'm sure it must be thrilling to serve in such an elite force. And if not... it's only for life." I'm not sure if he's just mocking Jon, is bitter about the course his own life has taken or condescending Jon as one person in an elite force whose members forego title and progeny to another. The Night's Watch really must seem like a pathetic version of the Kingsguard to Jaime? Poor bastards are doing the same thing only they're stuck at the end of the world instead of being warm and politically situated in the capital.
One's black and the other one's white, get it?
DOGGIES
DOGGIE SPAM
;___________________;
And ok some scenery porn:
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Date: 2011-04-26 07:34 pm (UTC)And I adore Arya forever -- in the books, on screen, you name it, she is never not awesome.
And the direwolves are so pretty. (I read that after the filming was complete, the actor who plays Sansa adopted the dog who played Lady. So there's a happy ending in RL, if not on screen. *g*)
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Date: 2011-04-26 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-27 03:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 07:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 08:23 pm (UTC)And ahaha, you would not be alone! Half the fandom has a huge crush on book!Jon, I think :) I will say that... Jon is a good person to have a crush on.
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Date: 2011-04-27 05:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 07:42 pm (UTC)Joffrey is appropriately creepy and I can't wait for him to die horribly. iiiick.
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Date: 2011-04-26 08:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 08:11 pm (UTC)Cat, Lysa, and Sansa are the perfect examples of why you don't raise women to be ornamentals. Which is why I love another family that hasn't made an appearance yet. An apparently tight-knit and loving family whose daughters are taught to play the game and not get played.
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Date: 2011-04-26 08:28 pm (UTC)That other family you're talking about is just not made of idiots, is all. If anything it's the Lannisters who are cheifly to blame, for me, for ignoring their women and raising them to be ornaments.
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Date: 2011-04-27 01:40 am (UTC)And yet (almost) every time Cersei goes up against them, the Queen of Thorns trumps her. That's quite a bit more than "just not made of idiots" in my book. Cersei got her big win against them because Sansa's ... well, Sansa.
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Date: 2011-04-26 09:07 pm (UTC)It makes me wonder of how much of their divergent paths was due to the circumstances of their marriages [Cat half-babied by Ned, Cersei ignored and therefore unhindered* in her quest for power].
*By a king taking interest in governing matters or by a (possible) sentimentality/affect for said king, had he been less of a moron.
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Date: 2011-04-26 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 09:59 pm (UTC)I'm fascinated by mirror portraits and that did influence how I've seen them, so my view is obviously slanted.
Plus, you've written often enough how this or that action by the one or the other was dumb/despicable/brilliant/etc, but without a complete overview of the characters.
(uhm. I *do* suppose that you see them as somewhat opposites. At least from the player/played perspective.)
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Date: 2011-04-26 10:18 pm (UTC)Cersei was - until book 4 - sort of the counterpoint to Tyrion and Petyr. The Only One With A Brain. She was Catelyn's oposite because she didn't live in a fairytale. Because from a very young age she saw the world for what it was and had to learn to navigate it. Because her mother died, because her father was an asshole, because she was at the heart of the action, because she was fucking her brother. Like Tyrion and Petyr, the only true players on the show, the only ones with political sense, the only ones who know what's really going on, she came from a place of great disadvantage and powerlessness and had to learn these things to survive.
Catelyn on the other hand came from a place of great privilege. She was beloved at home, she never lost her true love, she was never married off to a cruel man she didn't love (like her sister, like Cersei). She got as good a match as could possibly be expected in those times - someone kind and decent her own age who wanted to make her happy and could provide for her. She lived in a place far, far away where she didn't have to struggle for anything, face any kind of intrigued and the worst she ever had to deal with was her - loving, caring, wonderful - husband's bastard living with them. And we know how she handled that - like it was the end of the world (compare to Cersei's experiences with her husband, infidelity and his hordes of illegal children).
So, Catelyn's life WAS a fairytale, in most ways. And she raised her kids - the ones who were silly enough to listen - to believe in that same things. Honor, valor, justice, chivalry, Catelyn could afford to believe in all that because she'd never had to face the real world. She had her little fantasy life away from everything and it was great.
And then of course the tragedy comes when she - or rather, her daughter first - have to deal with how this world really works. With how there is no justice, no chivalry, no honor, no mercy. Not for Catelyn's sister, not for anyone else. There's only the haves and the have nots and she's just been lucky to be in the right category so far.
Cersei's tragedy is that her father was Henry VIII. He wanted a male heir, a perfect boy knight to be his mirror image and successor. But Jaime had a head for politics like a log can swim, even if he hadn't gone into the kingsguard, and Tyrion would have been perfect but he was a dwarf and Tywin couldn't bare to name him successor, and Cersei... should have been perfect, should have been his disciple, but instead was used as a blunt instrument. Cersei is extremely talented but ultimately no one ever mentored her, no one ever showed her and taught her how to do this, how to truly be a master of the craft and where Tyrion had all the time in the world to stand back and observe and learn, at least, she didn't have that luxury. She was already in the middle of it by the time it counted, she had to deal with a billion things and again, Tywin never bothered to teach her a damn thing. That is her tragedy, that the patriarchy didn't recognize her gifts, didn't develop them, and she was left to her own devices even though by every logical rule she should have been Tywin's focus as his one "successful" child.
Catelyn's tragedy is entirely different. Catelyn's tragedy is that she was too privileged by circumstances to ever have to fend for herself (for what it's worth, I don't think ANYONE in her family was particularly good at politics so it's not like she had a brilliant mentor waiting) and she bought into all the Disney movies, blind to the plight of everyone around her (*cough* JON). She's privileged and narrow minded and as soon as that privilege is taken away she's fucked, utterly and completely, because she has no idea how to live in the world. Which is partially why it was so hard for me to get into her story - because her narrative was "extremely privileged person loses privilege" in a world where other characters were fucked from day 1 and still still struggling to survive. Like I don't care about her angst, or Ned's, who lives in the same fantasy existence, although it's more understandable since he's a straight dude and all. I want them dead because I can't forgive them their blind privilege to begin with. Like, I think the book makes it very clear that Ned is only chivalrous because nothing bad's ever happened to him - nothing truly bad, nothing to crush his very essence - and the book then exposes him for a man living in a dream, for a man not accustomed to the realities of life, and a man who pays for his ignorance. Which I like :D And which was why I cheered when he died and begged for Catelyn to meet the same fate, although I was super sad for the kids.
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Date: 2011-04-26 11:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-26 11:29 pm (UTC)So, no, I've never posted this stuff publicly or tried to make it into a proper argument. Frankly, after my experiences with the fandom on LJ, I'm not interested in making any kind of arguments to that community, lol. I'm happy to leave them alone if they do me the same courtesy. I'm happy with my Russian speaking friends.
I read the books a long, long time ago so I honestly can't give you any detailed examples, except that to say that in the first 3 books she was a reasonably competent player, and the only woman to be so, and second only to Tyrion when he applied himself or Petyr (Petyr pawns everyone though, Petyr's my favorite). She was clearly lacking... experience, in a way, patience, a certain finesse, but she still outplayed everyone around her with her hands tied.
And then book 4 came along, and among the other joys it brought it ruined Cersei completely (again, this is something everyone I know IRL who's read the books also thinks, for what it's worth). It made her less nuanced, it made her stupid, it made her blind and criminally careless. Instead of being gifted but not quite well trained she became nothing more than a moron. Which... is a tragedy, because there is absolutely not a single major female character currently to replace her. Everyone else Martin's developed as potential players is peripheral at this point, and fucking fuck I did not spend 3 books invested in this woman for you to ruin her out of nowhere.
ETA: I actually don't even know how you can think Cersei's not a major, gifted player by this time in the show. Like, she's already pawning everyone left and right, man O_o even Tyrion at this point is no match for her.
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Date: 2011-04-27 08:44 pm (UTC)Cersei in the show does seem smart and, gifted, I guess, but they changed so much from the books, and a lot of what Cersei in the show is comes from Lena Headey's delivery. I will certainly keep in mind your perspective when rereading the books which I really want to do now, because book 1 wasn't really impressive to me compared to others (Catelyn PoV, how glad was I to be read of it!) and it feels now like I forgotten a lot of stuff.
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Date: 2011-04-27 08:50 pm (UTC)I'm not sure what they changed from the books in term of Cersei? She's... so far been very faithful? Lena Heady's portrayal aside, even though I think embodies Cersei rather perfect just as she was in the books, Cersei's characterization is that she's currently successfully running several strands of intrigue behind everyone's backs and getting her way with absolutely everything at court. Like... literally, there is absolutely no one on the show currently who's done more/better.
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Date: 2011-04-27 08:57 pm (UTC)I didn't mean they changed Cersei, precisely, only that they changed others (Catelyn is nigh unrecognisable, IMO, they pretty much broke the entire Dany/Drogo story, etc), and I don't remember my own impressions of Cersei from the first book, so I cannot tell if what I see comes directly from the books or not.
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Date: 2011-04-27 01:33 am (UTC)I disagree with this to some extent because several of the Cersei POV chapters reveal that as a young child she still had a great deal of idealism, despite the blow of losing her mother, up until she was about 12, and that's when she starts being a much more active navigator of her own fate.
I think her last bit of idealism, her last bit of hope got crushed on her wedding night. Had Robert not revealed that Cersei was competing with a ghost, and at such a crucial moment, Cersei might have been a (somewhat) happier woman.
(ETA: BTW, it is refreshing and novel to be able to have this level of discourse on the character.)
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Date: 2011-04-27 07:46 am (UTC)I don't remember the books well enough to comment on the finer points by now, but given that Cersei's whole life at the point when she married was wrapped around Jaime and being with him, I don't think anything Robert would have done - except proving himself to be something other than what he was, a moron, which would change his character entirely - would have made much of a difference.
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Date: 2011-04-28 02:47 pm (UTC)This, yes, thank you. I was starting to fumble my way to this in my latest post. Cersei could have been an excellent political player except that she was pushed aside and told to be a pawn. Now she has the chance to rule but no one ever taught her how. So she manages clever short-term schemes but has little understanding of long-term consequences. And she also seems to be incapable of comprehending people's possible motives if they don't match her own.
Tywin's sister said that Tyrion was truly his father's son which I think is correct. I wonder, if Tywin had actually acknowledged this, what would Tyrion have been like?
Er, excuse me butting in, I'm really enjoying your thoughts on this.
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Date: 2011-04-26 10:02 pm (UTC)Forgot to add:
"after your Paper Of Doom/Exam Session Of Doom".
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Date: 2011-04-27 03:12 am (UTC)I'm on the fence about Cersei: I keep thinking that she appear a bit more emotionally unruffled, or maybe more angry and less melancholy in the scenes where we get shots of her face. Or even show less emotional vulnerability and more icy "I'm the queen, move over" because I keep thinking of her as this consummate politician who can control her public face, as much as she rages in private.
Jaime just manages to carry it off ahahha.
Puppies ♥ Can we have an episode with just the puppies please?
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Date: 2011-04-27 03:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-27 08:57 am (UTC)I've just started watching the series -- never read the books, I have to admit, so I went in without any expectations. (Except being braced for it to suck, taking recent experience with costume history/fantasy into account.) I'm really enjoying it so far, some parts more than others, and I really like reading other people's takes on it.
It's interesting that Catelyn is supposed to be that unlikeable in the books. In the series she's just an interesting level of flawed while generally awesome to me; not terribly interesting to see someone sitting by someone's bedside for the better part of an hour but the fight with the assassin was pretty badass for a character type like hers, and even moreso the meeting afterwards, where she looked totally in charge.
Tyrion is wonderful, but even for someone who's never read the books, it's pretty clear he knows -- and isn't exactly wrecked about -- about quite a bit of the more evil shenanigans going on around his siblings.