luthien13, posts by tag: language - LiveJournal

Gacked from greenhoodloxley and snowgrouse

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Speaking of dialect, accent, etc, PBS has a cool site on American dialects. I completely failed their quiz.

Out of curiosity, how many of you have a difference in your dialect between "caught" and "cot" or "don" and "dawn"?

I've been using my expensive education in Chinese to read fanfic between these two:


I think I tried to explain it before, but they were both military geniuses in their own ways. It's just, the guy on the left (Zhuge Liang) was all-but supernaturally gifted at it, and was really a thinker more than an actual fighter. The guy on the right (Zhou Yu) was his nemesis, really; Zhuge Liang was, in the end, responsible for his death. Zhou Yu was also a fighter of great skill in his own right, but everyone agrees that Zhuge Liang was the greater strategist. They have temples to his honour in southern China still.

Anyway... even when necessity drove them to work together, they were still trying to kill each other. Which is very very hot.

Also, so you catch the reference in the story, Zhou Yu and Zhuge Liang did a nifty thing when they were coming up for a plan to defeat their mutual enemy. They didn't trust each other not to simply wait and see what the other one would come up with, thus giving the guy who waited advantage in knowing how the planner's mind worked. So they both got together and each wrote down his plan on his palm, which they then showed to each other. They had both written "fire", and thus their side used fireships against the invading northern army and thus won the battle of Red Cliff.

And now, THE FIC. Which I totally started translating in the middle.

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May trans more or even the whole thing if anyone expresses interest. And hell, I may even try to translate it better! But for those of you who want more and can read Chinese, the original is here:
«游戏» 作者：冰川纪亲妈

If you just want more Zhou/Zhuge fic, here are some search results from the same site.

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	Old	English		Old	Norse
	singular	plural		singular	plural
nominative	stān	stānas		armr	armar
genitive	stānes	stāna		arms	arma
dative	stāne	stānum		armi	armum
accusative	stān	stānas		arm	arma

Okay, so what we have here is Old English on the left with the various conjugations of the word "stone", and Old Norse on the right with the word "arm".
What's interesting is that during the period that the Vikings established themselves in the Danelaw (basically all of Enlgand except Wessex and the Celtic holdouts of Cornwall and Wales), the Old English in that region underwent an interesting change: The case endings are the wee cute suffixes that gave meaning to words and indicated their case (duh) and number. By the advent of Middle English (in about 1200), these were gone. For comparison:

Modern English	Old English	Middle English
the stone	stān	stone
the stone's	stānes	stone's
to the stone	stāne	to the stone
the stones	stānas	the stones
the stones'	stāna	the stones'
to the stones	stānum	to the stones

And while the northern dialects of Old English, such as Northumbrian, which were subject (quite literally) to the Danes who ruled there, lost their cases, the dialect of Wessex, which never was conquered, took a far longer time to lose its cases.
What seems to have happened was this:

A bunch of Vikings settled in England, and weren't all that interested in learning the local language. They were the rulers, of course, so everyone had to learn their language.
These svelt Svens and hardy Haralds took Ænglish Æthelgifus to wife, and they all had little Æthelræd Svensons and Ælfræd Haraldsons together. Sven and Harald didn't really pay attention to speaking "proper" English with their wives - they could just drop off the case endings and basically be understood, as both Old Norse and Old English were Germanic languages. The Vikings' Danglish sounded foreign, but little Æthelræd didn't know Daddy spoke weird English - this was before classrooms - and just learned a mix of Daddy's bad Danglish.

For there's nothing inevitable about a language sloughing off nuances like case endings (see Icelandic, which is insane) on its own, but when you get a full on whammy of the Danelaw and some linguistically disinclined warriors the disappearance of English cases starts to make sense.

And the -um suffix that survived for so long in Northern dialects of English? Shared with the Old Norse of the Vikings; the one case ending they didn't have to strain their pretty blonde heads over.

The End.

Post Scriptum: If you actually read this, ic lufie þē. (Ich luvie thee)

Wyrd bið ful aræd.

Where is the horse gone? Where the rider?
Where the giver of treasure?
Where are the seats at the feast?
Where are the revels in the hall?
Alas for the bright cup!
Alas for the mailed warrior!
Alas for the splendour of the prince!
That time has passed away,
dark under the cover of night,
as if it had never been.
- The Wanderer

My bliss, my bale, ye both have been;
But much the more, it was my moan
Since thou wast cast out from my ken
I wist not where my pearl was gone.
Now I see it; now my woe has waned.
When we parted we were at one;
God forbid that we now be wroth
We meet so seldom by stock or stone.
- The Pearl, Canto VII:2

No. This is the best thing ever:


For those interested, the Old English translation is as follows:

In þe dagum Ēomeres in þe Marce, men æfdon friþ þe hit āwilnodon and þe leod wēoxon ǽgðer ġe in þe dælum ġe in þe emnetum, and hira hors manigfaldon. In Staninglande Ælfstan Cyning nū ricsode, and in Cyninglande ēc. In allum þe landum þara āldena cynerica hē wæs cyning, nemne in þe Riddermarce, þām hē geniwode tō Ēomere þe Giefe Ciriones, and Ēomer gehālsode ednīwan þe Hāþ Ēorles. Oft æfnde hē hit. For þāh þe Deorca Hlāford æfde gefallen, þe hatunga and þe yfelu þæt hē cennede ne æfdon gecwolen, and þe Cyning Westes æfde ātemian manega fēondas ǽr þe Hwitan Trēowe meahte grōwan friþsume. And swā hwider swā Ælfstan Cyning fōr æt guðe, Ēomer Cyning fōr mid him; and begeondan þe Eastsǽ and on þe feorrum feldum sūþdǽles þe þūnorrad rǽdeheres Marce wæs gehered and þe Hwita Hors on Grenum flēg in manegum windum ǽr Ēomere gamolode.
(Þe Hlāford Hringa, Add. A, "Þe Cyningas Marce – Þridda Strynd", tr. 1045)

Original text:

"In Éomer's day in the Mark men had peace who wished for it, and the people increased both in the dales and the plains, and their horses multiplied. In Gondor the King Elessar now ruled, and in Arnor also. In all the lands of those realms of old he was king, save in Rohan only; for he renewed to Éomer the gift of Cirion, and Éomer took again the Oath of Eorl. Often he fulfilled it. For though Sauron had passed, the hatreds and evils that he bred had not died, and the King of the West had many enemies to subdue before the White Tree could grow in peace. And wherever King Elessar went with war King Éomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhûn and on the far fields of the South the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Éomer grew old."
(The Lord of the Rings, App. A, “The Kings of the Mark – Third Line, p. 1045)

*dies*

From mid February to June, guess where I'm going to be?

哎呀! OHMYGODS! 我的天! I CAN'T BELIEVE I GOT IN! 大家，我回去中国! 懂吗？ THIS IS SO AWESOME!!

I got into the Pitzer China program!　I'm going to get to stay in a dorm with a Chinese student and take classes and speak in that excellent BeiJing accent (sorry, TaiWan) and do my own independent study on Chinese religions with my anthropology+language skillz for x10 damage! HOLY GODS I AM SO EXCITED YOU GUYS.
Words cannot express my excitement. I think I'm going to explode.

Oh, and sorry for spamming, but.... YEAH!

Does this mean "harmony"? No, it does not.
It means "key".
¡FAIL!


Of course, there's always the alternative...

Geoffrey's got himself a blog, the clever man. Who'da thought? But I always knew he'd like cat macros. See.

And yet in this derke tyme of sorwe and tene, ich haue foond much deliit in the merveillous japeries of the internet. No thyng hath plesed me moore, or moore esed myn wery brayne than thes joili and gentil peyntures ycleped “Cat Macroes” or “LOL Cattes .” Thes wondirful peintures aren depicciouns of animals, many of them of gret weight and girth, the which proclayme humorous messages in sum queynte dialect of Englysshe (peraventure from the North?). Many of thes cattes (and squirreles) do desiren to haue a “cheezburger,” or sum tyme thei are in yower sum thinge doinge sum thinge to yt.

My favourite thing, though is an interview with one "Parys Launcecrona". The name. Oh gods. It makes me so happy!
Am I going to grow up to be a medievalist? :{

Meanehwæl, baccat meaddehæle, monstær lurccen;
Fulle few too many drincce, hie luccen for fyht.
Ðen Hreorfneorhtðhwr, son of Hrwærowþheororthwl,
Æsccen æwful jeork to steop outsyd.
Þhud! Bashe! Crasch! Beoom! Ðe bigge gye
Eallum his bon brak, byt his nose offe;
Wicced Godsylla wæld on his asse.
Monstær moppe fleor wyþ eallum men in hælle.
Beowulf in bacceroome fonecall bamaccen wæs;
Hearen sond of ruccus sæd, "Hwæt ðe helle?"
Graben sheold strang ond swich-blæd scharp
Stond feorth to fyht ðe grimlic foe.
"Me," Godsylla sæd, "mac ðe minsemete."
Heoro cwyc geten heold wiþ fæmed half-nelson
Ond flyng him lic frisbe bac to fen
Beowulf belly up to meaddehæle bar,
Sæd, "Ne foe beaten mie færsom cung-fu."
Eorderen cocca-cohla yce-coeld, ðe reol þyng.

A Yonge Philologiste's First Drynkynge Poime

Whan that Apryl, with hir bosooms soote,
The draughtes of beere hath feched barefoote
And filled every coppe with swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the hange ouer;
Whan Stephanie, eek with hir sweete brests,
Inspired hath al the harts and chests
And tender crotshes of e'ery yonge sonne,
Who hath in the Room dremt of Yvonne,
And smale soules maken melodye,
Not slepen, al the nyght with open eye--
(So priketh hem wymyn in ther corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon rommpages,
And firstyeeres for to seken straunge bedstondes,
With ferme calwes, kowthe of sondry blondes;
But finially at every desires ende
To Scriptoria, to Philologie they wende,
Unhooly blisful fornicacioun forseken
By hem, that Oxenford clerkes they may wel wexen.

This is fucking excellent. :D

Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how I can take classes at the UW in Olde Anglische in my year off.
Provided I don't get too freaked out by the prospect of making such a momentous decision. It's the right thing to do, but I am no good at making decisions. *spases*