Talk:Rihanna

Artistry

Here is the section I composed for the artistry section that was removed in violation of the three-revert rule:

Songwriting

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists. By November 2025, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 152 songs. Israell (talk) 17:43, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

References

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists. By November 2025, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 152 songs.

Rihanna started her songwriting craft early on, writing poetry and then writing lyrics.

In addition to lyrics, Rihanna also composes music. The Academy Awards recognized and nominated her music composition for the song "Lift Me Up." "Drop That," one of the songs Rihanna wrote for the Smurfs Movie Soundtrack, is an instrumental song. Israell (talk) 11:55, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

In addition to singing, Rihanna is also a songwriter, having penned songs for herself and other artists. By March 2026, the ASCAP repertoire lists Rihanna as having taken part in the writing of 153 songs.

Rihanna started her songwriting craft early on, writing poetry and then writing lyrics.

In addition to lyrics, Rihanna also composes music. The Academy Awards recognized and nominated her music composition for the song "Lift Me Up." "Drop That," one of the songs Rihanna wrote for the Smurfs Movie Soundtrack, is an instrumental song. Israell (talk) 10:58, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

@SNUGGUMS: I also, in good faith, expanded the artistry section to elaborate on Rihanna's songwriting craft. However, 750h+ now acts like he owns this article and will not allow ANY mention of Rihanna's songwriting anywhere in the article. That's not reasonable, and he was already reported for edit-warring. Israell (talk) 11:02, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

@Israell: see WP:FAOWN. Edit warring to impose your version of an FA is not appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:10, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Acting

On the topic of the above, I think the "actress" part of her occupations should be removed. She has no lead roles in major blockbusters, sparse output (1-2 per year max, mostly 2012-2018), and focus shifted to Fenty brands and family since around 2020. Rihanna is one of the top-selling music artists, and her businesses have helped her accumulate a billion-dollar net worth. MOS:ROLEBIO states: "emphasize what made the person notable" and "non-noteworthy roles (i.e. activities that are not integral to the person's notability) should usually not be mentioned in the lead paragraph". Her acting roles are little in comparison to her status as a singer and businesswoman. 750h+ 10:13, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Being "major blockbusters" isn't as relevant as factors like quantity of movies or the attention she gets for them. We should not judge solely based on box office earnings. Not sure what to say about lead vs. supporting roles when she definitely had some film roles that weren't minor. Nevertheless, I definitely agree that music and business ventures are much more prominent parts of her career. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:53, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

I do understand your initial concern, though I would say the word "actress" could only be included in the lead if she had some major blockbuster starring role (or had large box office numbers), or won/get nominated for a large award. 750h+ 01:24, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

That's overly limiting when not every person who goes into acting (even when it's their primary occupation) has any blockbuster or gets nominated for let alone wins awards. I also wouldn't decide based on accolades alone. A person in theory could get lots of praise from critics for their roles without either of these things. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:38, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, and I do understand that. What I’m trying to say (I didn’t phrase it that well before) is that because Rihanna’s sales are so high and her businesses have garnered her a billion-dollar net worth, I think it’d only be fair for her to have had something very major to happen in her acting career. when you compare the sheer scale of her success in music and business to her acting career that have made her famous across both music and fashion, acting is minor by comparison.

Now say Rihanna had sold significantly less records and her businesses had made her significantly less than her music. There I’d argue be at least more reasonable to include her roles as an actress. 750h+ 11:08, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

The thing you just mentioned ("I would say the word "actress" could only be included in the lead if she had some major blockbuster starring role (or had large box office numbers), or won/get nominated for a large award") is nothing anywhere close to what the standards/definition of a role (of a famous person, no less) is. Being labelled as actor, or whatever else, has nothing to do with "major blockbuster" and has nothing to do with awards. It looks like a transparent and bizarre rationalization, made-up out of nowhere to support your own pre-existing attitude.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:27, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

For a celebrity as huge as Rihanna, of course either having a box-office hits or getting film nominations/awards should be indicators. We are not talking about a C-class celebrity here. That being said, I agree that "acting" has not been the field that made her notable (yet) as per MOS:ROLEBIO. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:11, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Rihanna has some major film roles, some of which are recent. I do not support removal of the actress occupation in the lede or infobox. Israell (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

Compared to her singing and business, the acting roles seem minor. You don’t see Taylor Swift’s article mentioning her role as an actor despite her role in Cats. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 12:15, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

RfC: Songwriter

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should Rihanna be described as a "songwriter" in the lede and infobox? 17:46, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

• Comment: See discussions above. This issue has been discussed a bunch already. Editors are encouraged to keep their contributions to the discussion at less than 500 words total. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:46, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
• Reminder: This is a featured article and thus sourcing quality needs to be better than usual. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Survey

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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• No, as I've seen no evidence of solo songwriting, and no evidence of composition details on any major song. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  Your comment managed to make a string of serious errors in less than 20 words.

  First of all, "solo songwriter" is not the definition of "songwriter". Some of the most famous songwriters in all of human history worked as a duo or group.

  Second of all, songwriting doesn't mean "composition", as anyone with even the tiniest familiarity with the concept knows, it can just mean *the lyrics*. As the great side, um, Wikipedia, says: A songwriter is a person who creates musical compositions or writes lyrics for songs, or both.

  Third of all, "major song" is obviously not the requirement for whether someone is a songwriter.

  Fourth, your declaration that "I've seen no evidence" is not meaningful. A meaningful statement would be, "I have searched and found none." I've seen no evidence that William McKinley was a President of the USA, but that doesn't make it false, and it doesn't even mean I looked. RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 20:48, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  @RandomEditor6772314: I see you are responding to every single no vote, so I don't feel a need to reply to every one of your points. I stand by what I said, that I've seen no evidence of any solo compositions. At best, Rihanna is a collaborator. If the Wikipedia article was to describe her as a songwriter, then the article would need to go into detail about what she did as a songwriter. I did not vote no without doing any research, I've been familiar with this discussion for several months now. If you can point to any sources that identify Rihanna's role as a songwriter (beyond songwriting credits), then I would happily change my vote. And that includes if there's any sources that identify what words (plural, words) Rihanna wrote. I asked other users here and elsewhere if they could identify any song that Rihanna wrote lyrics (again, more than one word) to. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

• No, her roles as a singer and businesswoman eclipse her role as a songwriter (WP:ROLEBIO). No reliable sources speak on her ability as a writer. 750h+ 17:54, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  First of all, one role "eclipsing" another is not the appropriate grounds for removing a role.

  Second of all, the idea that "businesswoman" eclipses the musical part is absurd.

  Third of all, your statement that "no reliable sources speak on her ability as a writer" seems extremely confused on multiple levels. The question is not "ability", since an artist is still called an artist regardless of whether their art is terrible. Sources obviously exist and are cited in other comments. Using the word "writer" instead of songwriter seems extra-confused about what music credits actually are.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

• Yes, as the information provided is largely sufficient, and the article cannot be based on a level of details that is impossible to provide.

I took the time to do more research and build an even stronger case for the addition of "songwriter" in the lede and infobox of the Rihanna article. Billboard magazine literally calls Rihanna a "songwriter" . The Academy Awards nominated Rihanna for music composition of the song Lift Me Up . Rihanna once (alongside Future and DJ Khaled) won R&B/Hip-Hop Songwriter of the Year at the BMI R&B/Hip-Hop Awards . American Songwriter published an article on five songs that Rihanna wrote for other artists . Other publications recognize Rihanna's work as a songwriter: Rolling Stones , Elle, Vogue, Essence, and CTV, among others. I provided multiple documentation that delves into Rihanna's songwriting process beyond high quality sources calling her a songwriter or mentioning her songwriting credits: V Magazine, Billboard, iHeart Radio,Revolt TV, and BBC. Two more sources: , .

Credits are official, published facts—legal and industry-recognized—especially when it comes to a major international artist like Rihanna. Such credits already passed publishers, labels, and performing rights organizations. They are therefore valid, citable facts.

As for assumptions or hearsay that Rihanna only writes one word... I've already verified (with multiple reliable sources) that she immersed herself in her lyrical craft, that skilled songwriters helped her hone her own skills (which implies a lot more than minor contributions), pour her emotions in her craft, that Makeba Riddick helped her write the bridge of "Rude Boy" (which is specific), that her peers in the industry affirmed her habitual songwriting, and that she also composes music (the Academy Awards recognizes that).

To describe what Rihanna composed exactly (once again, no high quality source goes into such details) is not necessary (the information provided is sufficient per WP:V). Having sole songwriting credits is not a requirement; having over 130 credits , incl. credits on her most releases, shows that songwriting is a primary occupation for her (alongside that of singer); playing an external instrument (like the guitar, the piano, etc.) is not absolutely necessary to compose music (for example, one can draw notes on sheet music or simply compose by ear, using one's mouth to demonstrate the melodies for an instrumentalist to play); it doesn't even matter "how" she composed (if even the Academy Awards credit her for composing, then it falls under WP:V—no need for further "verification"); and once again, assumptions or hearsay that she generally only changes one word or adds one line go against WP:NPOV and WP:NOR.

Believing that Rihanna is "not a songwriter," only changes one word or adds one line or a few notes in a recording is not a valid basis when it comes to this question. Such assumptions are original research and cannot be used to remove or avoid use of the term "songwriter" in the lede and infobox of the subject's article. Israell (talk) 18:29, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

• Yes Rihanna has written & co-written various hit songs from her own discography as well as with other artists. More than enough sources support this Never17 (talk) 18:24, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
• No per 750h+. She is wholly non-notable as a songwriter; reliable, independent sources have refrained from discussing ths aspect of her career in depth. So must we. —Serial Number 54129 ^{(wake up Fortuna)} 18:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  Your comment is so extremely wrong that it's suspicious and disturbing:

  A) The person is obviously credited on a bunch of songs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Rihanna (Note "Rihanna" is not legal name, therefore her songwriting credit doesn't necessarily say "Rihanna" just as Slash's birth certificate doesn't say, I don't think, "Slash")

  B) Not only is the person credited on a bunch of songs, but they are...literally worldfamous as a singer of those songs.

  C) "in depth discussion" of a professional role is not at all the basis or definition for listing a role as a role

  D) Obviously reliable independent sources are easy to find, which tells us all, in public, that you said that without actually checking. Here's one example: https://www.grammy.com/news/rihanna-songs-albums-discography-music-guide-career "penning nine of Rated R's 13 tracks" RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:02, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  @RandomEditor6772314: as I pointed out elsewhere, please don't respond to every single "no" comment, and you are supposed to assume good faith. Comments like "suspicious and disturbing" are unproductive to this discussion. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  Her full legal name (at birth) is Robyn Rihanna Fenty; her songwriting credits indicate "Robyn Fenty," "Robyn R Fenty," or "Rihanna." I agree that reliable independent sources (like this one) have indeed discussed that aspect of her career in depth. Israell (talk) 00:58, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

• Yes Category:Songs written by Rihanna exists, enough sources support that she is at least a co writter of numerous songs, sole credit is not required for Beyonce's page to be called a songwriter, same rule applies here too. castorbailey (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  I agree with this, I have voted yes UpDownFootnote (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  OK, but replying to another user that you voted yes doesn't count as a vote. You have to submit your vote in at the bottom of the section and in the other votes format (dot, bold Yes, then your reason for your vote, then your signature) castorbailey (talk) 23:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

• Yes, I have commented on this before, and for reasons mentioned above here Rihanna is certainly a songwriter. I do not see why anyone would even want to oppose this. MraClean (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  "I do not see why anyone would even want to oppose this". Racism and sexism combined (aka intersectionality), meaning, a person gets subjected to dismissal, denial, scrutiny, and credit-stripping, while certain other people who have the exact same record (of whatever arts or deeds or collaborations) don't get subjected to it.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

• Yes, Rihanna should be considered as a song writer here as documented in other outlets. She also co wrote songs with other artists which have been successful such as with Eminem and Shakira. Even if she don't write every word she contributes to the song like ideas or lyrics someway. Mr Boar1 (talk) 23:59, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
• No. As I already said before, Rihanna only co-wrote 3 of her 14 number-one songs: "Rude Boy" (co-wrote with 5 other people), "Work" (co-wrote with 6 other people), and "The Monster" (co-wrote with 6 other people). It's obviously not her defining profession and not integral to her notability per MOS:ROLEBIO. Bluesatellite (talk) 02:39, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  Obviously the proportion of "number-one" songs is not at all the definition of whether someone is a "songwriter" or accurately labelled as a songwriter. That was a weird contortion.

  Obviously the person has written (meaning, has legal writing credit on) far more songs than the extremely misleading "3" in your comment.

  Obviously the obsessive focus on "co-wrote" in your comment shows a complete lack of understanding of what writing credits are. Some of the most famous songwriters in history were co-writers. RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

• Yes, Rihanna is an award winning songwriter who is described as such in multiple sources. It is Wikipedia's job to reflect that in this article. Miklogfeather (talk) 08:06, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yes. When I think of Rhianna is “songwriter” the first, second, or third thing that pops up in my mind? Absolutely not. But who am I to create a goal post as to what is a songwriter and who should be classified as such. It all boils down to did she write song(s)? The answer to that is yes. Are there reliable sources reporting on her song writing? Answer to that again is yes. Is it my goal post? No. It’s Wikipedia’s, and that will have to be enough.TruthGuardians (talk) 11:52, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yes. If multiple reliable sources state that she is a songwriter, and no other equally reliable sources provide credible reason to doubt that claim, then she is a songwriter. We follow sources, not argue with them. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 12:33, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yes Unfortunately though, as she appears much less than 50% of the time as songwriter on our own list of her songs and a lot of those she is merely a contributor, she is described as such by others. They are obviously wrong, of course. I believe a note should be made of this fact as well if there are reliable sources that state "she gets called this but is not one". Swing, meet roundabout. Chaosdruid (talk) 13:09, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yes per Seraphimblade and Israell Episteme Aletheia (talk) 03:12, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
• Yes, songwriter is well-sourced and it fits in well with her other notable accomplishments. Pistongrinder (talk) 02:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• Yes. The case has been made that several high-quality, reliable sources describe her as a songwriter. Coffeeurbanite (talk) 18:03, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• Yes It's supported by reliable sources. Wyll Ravengard (talk) 10:20, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
• Yes - Clearly and obviously. As has been explained by others with good evidence. See my other replies for discussion of how absurdly false, weird, and misguided, many of the "No" comments are about the Songwriter label for Rihanna. Literally a world-famous singer/music-person who in fact is credited on ~70 songs and called a songwriter on grammy.com. (And no the definition of songwriting or songwriting credit has nothing to do with "solo" or "awards" or "in-depth discussion" of her exact writing parts, it has nothing to do with "composition", and has nothing to do with the many rationalizations that people cooked up to say Rihanna shouldn't be called a songwriter, which never happened for other figures.)RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:35, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
• No. Rihanna is undeniably a songwriter with songwriting credits, but after looking at the arguments above, I'm not seeing evidence that "songwriter" is how Rihanna is most commonly described by sources and that songwriting is one of the things she is most notable for. It's therefore not appropriate for the lead sentence per MOS:ROLEBIO. It's extremely common for musicians to write music, but it doesn't necessarily make it their defining role for Wikipedia purposes. Popcornfud (talk) 12:06, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Discussion

• @Israell: - can you shorten your response? The RFC says - “Editors are encouraged to keep their contributions to the discussion at less than 500 words total.” Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:16, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  It's 484 words right now. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:17, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  I got 507 words by my count, my mistake. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:20, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  I used a random internet word counter. In any event, @Israell, you should work on making your posts more concise. Please stop commenting on other editors and focus on content. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:20, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

  Hi,

  First you asked someone to shorten their response, apparently because a webpage says people are "encouraged" to do less than 500 words. Then you said your "random internet word counter" was wrong, which clearly means you had no real issue with the length since you had to use a word count to get a measurement and justify your criticism (when in reality 484 is not different 507 words if you had genuinely believe the comment wasn't "concise" or relevant). Then you gave condescending unwarranted personal advice to the other person, "you should work on making your posts more concise, Please stop commenting on other editors."

  I'm here to point out: you were the one focussing on another editor. You were the one who wrote multiple misguided comments that did not contribute anything to the actual discussion, while criticizing one of the few people in the entire thread who made a meaningful contribution (I.e. research and facts.)

  Please follow your own advice, and stop making up random rules that dismiss another human being's comment in a comment section. The "reply" button exists so that commenters can comment on other comments, like I'm doing now, so that people can point out when another person's comment is extremely wrong, misguided, and hypocritical.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 21:16, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  @RandomEditor6772314: Voorts is an administrator and is attempting to guide this discussion, which has become heated and contentious, due to the need for accuracy and maintaining the integrity of the featured article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:48, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  Oops, I misread the conversation as between you and israell, I didn't realize it was between you and voorts about the length. Sorry. Anyway, my point still stands: the concern about something being around 500 words, based on an official "encouragement" of staying under 500 words (not a rule), followed by needless personal advice focussing on "an editor" instead of the merits/substances of highly relevant detailed comments, while israel did and showed careful well-explained research to support a (Yes) vote (while other comments used incorrect definitions and falsehoods), looks like badly flawed logic (while also being hypocritical). Israell's comment was practically an award-winning research project, in context.RandomEditor6772314 (talk) RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:43, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  "badly flawed logic" - there you go again, not assuming good faith. I have been interacting with Israell for many months about this very issue. You only have 181 edits since 2021. Badly flawed logic would be assuming that your lack of experience means you might not understand that's going on here, but instead, I believe that you are quite competent as an editor, so I'm happy to explain. No, Israell's comment was not an award-winning research project, not when one of their points is flawed, when he said, "To describe what Rihanna composed exactly (once again, no high quality source goes into such details) is not necessary". I disagree on that front, considering Rihanna is an important artist that is a featured article, where details are important. You can't just add one small thing without going into details. The article already says "Rihanna often co-writes her songs alongside a team of collaborators." That is accurate based on the sources that I've seen, and a lack of further, detailed, follow up. As I've been suggested to not bludgeon this topic to death, this is the last thing I'm going to add to this discussion. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:54, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Israell, @Hurricanehink, @750h+: stop. You all are continuing to bludgeon this to death. Let other people comment. voorts (talk/contributions) 12:47, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  "Let other people comment." Some people making detailed comments/conversation does not stop other people from commenting. So, what is the meaning of that comment? Especially coming from an admin(?)?RandomEditor6772314 (talk) 23:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

  @RandomEditor6772314: See WP:BLUDGEONING. Stop aggressively commenting on every post that you disagree with in this discussion. Next stop will be ANI. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:24, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

• @Jimcastor: Just a note that this page is incomparable to Beyoncé, who’s called a songwriter because multiple articles detail her songwriting. If this weren’t the case I’d be requesting a removal of that too. 750h+ 00:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  That was a reference to Hurricanehink's argument that there was no evidence of solo songwriting, that can't be a reason for not calling someone a songwriter. Multiple reliable sources reported that Rihanna co wrote songs or wrote lyrics'("Wakanda Forever, is a soft and vibe-y ballad that Rihanna co-wrote with Tems; "Rihanna co-wrote her new single with Tems" "punching buttons on the console and seemingly writing lyrics " "Anti would arrive, the sinuous track – which Rihanna co-wrote with Jeff Bhasker," this along with her actual songwriting credits on multiple songs is sufficient to call her a songwriter, as it is for Beyonce. castorbailey (talk) 00:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  Being described as a songwriter in various sources is insufficient under MOS:ROLEBIO. Rihanna needs to be considered notable for being a songwriter, not just described as such. That means that we need significant coverage about Rihanna as a songwriter. See also WP:BALASP. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  I think the difference between Beyonce is that there are multiple references that delve into her songwriting and songwriting abilities, meanwhile there is quite literally not one single source (barely even any primary sources) that go into this. If she was a songwriter, I would expect such. I also think it is interesting that despite having the most Hot 100 number-one songs of any artist this century, Rihanna is nowhere to be found on Billboard's list of the top songwriters of the century based on chart success; Bey is found at number five, despite having five less No. 1s than Rih. 750h+ 03:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  Separate notability for each role of the lede is not a requirement of MOS:ROLEBIO. All the reliable sources I provided strongly support Rihanna's role as a singer and a songwriter (WP:V, WP:RS). Rihanna's notability as a recording artist is proven fact. And judging by her number of songwriting credits, being a songwriter is a great part of artistry. Dismissing her many songwriting credits without reliable sources confirming they are bogus violates WP:NOR.

  Also, MOS:ROLEBIO does not require that a subject receives as much coverage as another subject. Israell (talk) 03:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  i'll agree with including "songwriter" in the lead (as one of her most notable occupations) when I see sources that speak on her songwriting ability. Songwriting credits have been out of the window for me as those do not show the extent of her contributions. Also it does not matter to me at all if all a source says "Rihanna is a singer and songwriter" if that same source does not go any more into her songwriting ability. Lead is supposed to include her most notable roles. If there's nothing past those then clearly being a songwriter is not notable for her. 750h+ 04:03, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  MOS:ROLEBIO doesn't have an "ability" requirement. Claiming so is akin to creating a higher standard, and that goes against the Wikipedia policies I mentioned. Many reliable sources confirm Rihanna to be a songwriter, and that's largely sufficient per Wiki policies. Anything else is editorial gatekeeping not backed by said policies. Israell (talk) 04:13, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  "Many reliable sources confirm Rihanna to be a songwriter": reliable sources have called Beyonce a filmmaker/director. Madonna a guitarist. Taylor Swift a businesswoman. Robert Downey Jr a singer. I want to hear why you think these aren't mentioned in the opening sentences of those articles. 750h+ 04:24, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  Per reliable sources (incl. her many songwriting credits), songwriting is a habitual occupation for Rihanna, not something occasional or incidental. Due weight is therefore met. Israell (talk) 05:24, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  again, we don’t know the extent of Rihanna’s contributions to individual songs, which is why credits alone are insufficient for determining due weight in the lead. Per ROLEBIO it should not be however may songwriting credits, but whether it is treated by reliable sources as a defining aspect (and not just “rihanna is a singer and songwriter” without stating anything about her writing)of her career. and if “songwriting is a habitual occupation for Rihanna” there should be multiple independent sources that go beyond “Rihanna is a songwriter” and instead talk about how she contributes to her songs and analyze her songwriting style or creative role within her discography. despite the thousands of words you’ve written I’ve yet to see an example for this.

  Now i will say: Rihanna is a songwriter. She does have a part in writing songs. However, is this a/treated as a defining aspect of her career? No it is not. Her singing and business careers eclipse this by miles. it honestly just sticks out like a sore thumb. 750h+ 08:11, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  MOS:ROLEBIO rules out incidental and non-noteworthy roles in the lead. Category:Songs written by Rihanna list 55 songs. Having that page with that many entries and not calling Rihanna a songwriter on her main page would be a contradiction. WP:BALASP is about the article as a whole, not the lead. Simply noting that Rihanna is a songwriter is hardly undue weight. castorbailey (talk) 11:51, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

As I stated during the first part of the discussion, Rihanna's hits are not limited to her number one singles on the Billboard Hot 100—far from it. Besides, non-singles are just as important in one's journey as a songwriter. Over 130 songwriting credits cannot be dismissed. Unless reliable sources confirm her songwriting input is minimal, token, or fraudulent, her credits are considered just as valid as her co-writers. Israell (talk) 03:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Also, a featured article does not demand a higher burden of proof or details that are not publicly available. The sourcing provided is largely sufficient. Israell (talk) 04:04, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

I’m not saying songwriting credits can’t be dismissed, but with that many credits, there should be something about what Rihanna did as a songwriter, in a reliable source, that’s verifiable. That level of precision for a featured article is expected. The fact the info isn’t available (to the best of my knowledge) is why I voted no. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 04:08, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Per reliable sources, she wrote lyrics. Per Wiki policies, that alone largely suffices. (I provided sources that give some details about her lyrical craft.) And per reliable sources, she composed music. Her lyrical craft alone suffices, so her composition work is just bonus—no more details required. Israell (talk) 04:20, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Sources say Rihanna got credit. Is there any evidence she wrote more than one word for any song? Or that any of her poems became songs? Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 04:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Once again, editing based on whether or not "she wrote more than one word for any song" goes against WP:V and WP:NOR. This is pure speculation, and it cannot be a basis to avoid or remove the songwriter occupation from the lede and infobox. Wikipedia relies on reliable published sources, not speculation pertaining to the extent or veracity of contributions. No reliable sources decry the subject's songwriting credits as bogus. Therefore, proof of substantial authorship is not required. Israell (talk) 05:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

Not involving myself with this part of the discussion any further than this comment but it stands out to me that a lot of your responses have ended with “not required”, “… is sufficient”, etc. 750h+ 07:54, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

• @Chaosdruid: A total of five credits from the Loud album, the Home soundtrack, and the "FourFiveSeconds" single were missing from the list you linked, so I added them, which takes the tally to 73. If we only take the songs that were actually released into consideration, Rihanna had a hand in writing 68 out of 164 of them. That's less than a half, but still more than a third, and a number of those songs only have from two to four songwriters total. Besides, Rihanna's still got more songwriting credits (over 130, excluding duplicates) than other acts such as Reneé Rapp (46 credits) and Alex Warren (38 credits) who also write with others. Israell (talk) 19:32, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

• @Israell: have you found any songs where you have documentation that Rihanna wrote more than one lyric? Any of the people (such as yourself) saying she "wrote lyrics" implies more than one word, so just looking for some verification for that. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:24, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

  As I've already stated, the documentation provided pass WP:V and WP:RS, and assumptions or hearsay that Rihanna generally only changes one word or adds one line go against WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. No reliable sources make a case for Rihanna usually only writing one word or so; such verification is therefore not required. Besides, this is not how sourcing works in music. Generally, no high quality source will state exactly which lyrics or how many lyrics an artist wrote in a specific song. That kind of verification is undue burden and not generally used on Wikipedia. Israell (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

• So it sounds like you haven't found any song where you can verify that she wrote more than one lyric, just confirming. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:14, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

  I stand by my aforesaid statement.

  In addition to that, I've already verified that Makeba Riddick helped Rihanna write the bridge of "Rude Boy" (which is specific): "Rude Boy was the work of five different songwriters, including Makeba Riddick, who helped [Rihanna] write the bridge, and Rob Swire, who contributed to Stargate’s production work." There is no assertion or implication (from this high quality source or any other reliable source) that Rihanna only wrote "one lyric" in this song or any other song. WP:STICKTOSOURCE Israell (talk) 06:25, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

• Still no verification for multiple lyrics though, and that source only says "Rude Boy was the work of five different songwriters, including Makeba Riddick, who helped [Rihanna] write the bridge". I still see no evidence Rihana wrote more than one lyric. That's a ridiculously low bar that should be easy to pass. Similarly, do you have evidence for any of Rihanna's poems becoming songs? You brought up multiple times on this talk page that Rihanna's poems became lyrics - well, which song then? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:56, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

  @Hurricanehink & @Israell: stop. you're both bludgeoning now. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:27, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

  Not looking to prolong the discussion, but I can understand both perspectives. Ultimately, basing content on our own interpretations of what happened or what is “true” risks veering into synthesis. Our role is to rely on reliable, secondary sources, and in this case, multiple such sources use this description. If there are concerns about that characterization, they’re best directed at the sources themselves. In the meantime, our responsibility is to reflect what is supported by verifiable sourcing.Coffeeurbanite (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Coffeeurbanite: Verifiability doesn't guarantee inclusion. The relevant question is whether it's balanced abd due to describe her as a songwriter in the first sentence per MOS:LEAD and MOS:FIRSTSENTENCE. If we can't write a section of the article that describes her songwriting in detail other than citing passing mentions of "she wrote X song", we shouldn't include it in the first sentence. I'm not taking a position in this particular RfC because I haven't done adequate research into those questions. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:42, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Coffeeurbanite: It should be noted that many singer/songwriter articles on Wikipedia do not include a songwriting section: David Bowie, Ed Sheeran, Chris Martin, Charlie Puth, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Charli XCX, Doja Cat, and Nessa Barrett, to name a few. None of those articles go into detail about the subjects' songwriting. Israell (talk) 02:02, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

  Other articles aren't relevant to this one, which is an FA. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

  David Bowie's page is also a FA. Israell (talk) 14:30, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

  Still not relevant. See WP:OTHERCONTENT. voorts (talk/contributions) 14:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

  @Voorts I don’t entirely disagree with you. I also think the material you mentioned belongs in the body. As for the lead, I see a case for including it there as well—but mainly because the current wording leans a bit promotional. Phrases like “businesswoman,” “influential figure in popular culture,” and “artistic reinventions” read more like puffery than summary.

  What if we streamlined it to something more direct and neutral, along the lines of: she is best known as a Barbadian singer and figure in popular culture, with a multifaceted career that includes co-songwriting credits. Rihanna is one of the best-selling music artists of all time, with estimated sales of over 250 million records.Coffeeurbanite (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

  I'd argue that by now, Rihanna is widely known as businesswoman (because of her Fenty Beauty and Savage X Fenty businesses) launched in 2017 and 2018, respectively. Though she had musical releases (all co-written by her) in 2020, 2022, and 2025, her last studio album was released in 2016.

  Her aforesaid businesses, that have occupied much of her time, have therefore been a main occupation for her, not just side hustles. For that reason, "businesswoman" should remain in the lede. As an actress, Rihanna's had over twelve acting roles in motion pictures and television, incl. lead roles, so "actress" should remain in the lede as well.

  And of course, "singer" and "songwriter" should both be in the lede considering that these two occupations go hand in hand for Rihanna and she's still active as a musician, currently working on new music. (In this Elle interview, Rihanna discusses the creative process of her next music album, asserting that it's going to be where her "artistry deserves to be right now." The article features a reel that shows Rihanna in the recording studio, operating a mixing console and doing some writing.)

  The lede sentence should therefore read: "Robyn Rihanna Fenty is a Barbadian singer, songwriter, businesswoman, and actress"; the infobox would consequently feature all four occupations. Inclusion of the term "songwriter" itself in the lede (first sentence) and infobox is the question of the RfC.

  As for the second sentence of the lede ("An influential figure in popular culture, she is known for her multifaceted career, artistic reinventions, and eclectic fashion style."), I cannot argue that any of those elements are untrue or overblown. Israell (talk) 05:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Content about shooting

In this section of the article, it is noted that a female suspect was taken into custody with no further elaboration. I am not here to challenge this, as it meets the WP:BLPCRIME policy. What I do want is to ask this -- would it potentially be worthwhile to add a hidden note for editors who may be less well-versed in BLP to not include the name of the individual in the section, the fact that it has appeared in reliable, secondary sources notwithstanding? I ask because this seems like a potential problem given the substantial coverage the incident has received in recent weeks, and I do believe we should take steps to preempt any violations of BLPCRIME, WP:BLPNAME, and other such policies. I'm just here to inquire about this, fellow editors can feel free to let me know what they think. JeffSpaceman (talk) 14:16, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

What do you mean by hidden note? Episteme Aletheia (talk) 04:24, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Adding more awards in the lead

Currently the awards are listed in random order and some awards which she won multiple times or even more times than what is already in the lead should be there I think. What is the opinion about this edit?

Rihanna is the recipient of numerous accolades, including thirteen American Music Awards, twelve Billboard Music Awards, nine Grammy Awards, eight People's Choice Awards, seven MTV Video Music Awards and six BET Awards. Episteme Aletheia (talk) 04:22, 26 May 2026 (UTC)