Talk:Mordechai Ben David

Opening heading

There should be some discussion about plagiarized songs.

done Joe407 (talk) 09:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

What about '25 Years' of MBD?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.9.202 (talk) 02:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Umm.. What about it? Joe407 (talk) 05:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Page name

Why is this page named Mordechai ben David and not Mordechai Ben David, which is his stage name and the source for his nickname, MBD? Yoninah (talk) 00:22, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a fair point, actually. While lowercase is the usual convention for such cases, in this case it is a stage name, and it's invariably capitalized. I'll move it. — Shmuel (talk) 18:55, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

...or I would, if there weren't already a redirect there. Time to request admin intervention, then... — Shmuel (talk) 18:58, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:26, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

---

Mordechai ben David → Mordechai Ben David – "Mordechai Ben David" is a stage name for Mordechai Werdyger; in his case, "Ben" is invariably capitalized. (And, indeed, it's considered significant to the point where he also goes by "MBD.") Both pages already exist; this is just a request to switch which is the "real" page and which is the redirect, so the page title reflects the actual capitalization. — Shmuel (talk) 19:05, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support move per nom. Yoninah (talk) 17:43, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

File:MBD.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Son in law edit

Hi, I'm wondering why sourced information about MBD's son-in-law is being removed (see this edit). Please explain. Joe407 (talk) 09:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi, The reason I removed Mendy Wald is simply because he is no longer his son-in-law. They divorced about 5 years ago. (Tm170 (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2011 (UTC))

That's fine. We need a source. At this point, we have a source saying that he is. WP:OR means we can't rely on an editors personal knowledge.Joe407 (talk) 04:25, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Retirement sources

• http://globetribune.info/2011/10/09/mordechai-ben-david-finished-with-albums/
• http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=16687&alias=mbd-plans-to-move-to-israel

Joe407 (talk) 13:01, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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The Jewish Michael Jackson

I am wondering if BangKettle bothered to check the source when the addition of MBD being called the "Jewish Michael Jackson" was reverted. The Telegraph is generally considered reliable for things like this. But leaving that discussion aside for the moment, an explanation is needed for why a very balanced paragraph about a minority viewpoint in Orthodox Judaism regarding MBD's style of music and performance was removed in the same edit with no explanation for it in the edit summary. I think leaving out the information would be falling short of WP:NPOV, since a holistic view of the topic is preferred over a version which could be seen as being overly promotional. StonyBrook _babble 05:06, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Sorry. I probably didn't do it the correct Wikipedia way. But growing up as an Orthodox Jew with his name as a household fixture, I've heard him nicknamed many things. Just because 'once in 2004' a news article compared him to Jackson doesn't mean he is known that way. While I'm sure Wikipedia has it's guidelines & allows this to even change it to be "Mordechai Ben David: The Jewish Elvis". (I'm sure you can find an article or 10..., since he actually is known as "The KING of Jewish Music") or in your case "Mordechai Ben David: The Jewish Michael Jackson"; I find it ridiculous to insist on calling him that title. BangKettle (talk) 16:16, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

BangKettle, you are correct for assuming that growing up as an Orthodox Jew with his name as a household fixture, I've heard him nicknamed many things is not exactly doing things the correct Wikipedia way. We know of both Neil Diamond and Lipa Schmeltzer being referred to as "the Jewish Elvis". Neil's article makes note of this fact in the article body itself, but not in the lede. I could find no sources describing MBD this way. Lipa being known as "the Lady GaGa of Hasidic music" was removed from the lede with no explanation, but I can make an argument for restoring it to the article body itself. We don't exactly have the best of sources for the "King of Jewish music"; right now it's sourced to an op-ed, although I did also find this and this, and none of it is better than the Telegraph. Can you make an argument for not moving both nicknames to the article body? Also, kindly address my second concern above. StonyBrook _babble 23:49, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you.

Not sure what the best perspective is. But regarding an Orthodox Jewish topic, both the Mishpacha Magazine & Yeshiva World News are the top media sources.

The other sources that quote Lipa being known as "the Lady GaGa of Hasidic music, or MBD as Jackson; are simply a one time comparison for the sake of that particular article. Calling them by those titles are simply not true. BangKettle (talk) 00:49, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

BangKettle, I appreciate your efforts to try and improve things around here that you know about. You said Calling them by those titles are simply not true. Actually, WP is not really concerned about what is true and not true, but rather what is verifiable (e.g. Is it true or not true that Donald Trump is the best US president? Depends on who you ask). WP is only concerned with whatever facts can be verified through reliable sources. Regardless, it is not for us to bestow this nickname or that on MBD, but rather it is WP recording what secondary sources have reported on the matter. For us to be picking and choosing based upon what we like or don't like would be editorializing, and therefore be a violation of one of the five pillars. You can't seriously be arguing that the Telegraph must be disregarded because it's not a good enough source to cover Orthodox Jewish topics (have a good look please at these references and tell me what percentage do you think come from Orthodox sources)? The guideline on reliable sources actually prefers a source with a level of independence from the topic the source is covering, making Mishpacha and YWN actually less preferable, not more. I've asked twice now but you have yet to address my concern about the paragraph in the Genre section that was reverted without explanation, so I await your response about that and my other request to have both nicknames included in the article body. StonyBrook _babble 08:08, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

Go ahead, revert it back and modify what you would like. I'm sorry for messing around with your strong researching efforts. I had changed it, because it seemed that it was a one sided research from a very small piece of information on his entire music career. The way your edit originaly seemed & past other edits I've seen of people not fluent in Orthodox Music, just find random articles that may be true sourced, but aren't properly portraying the person in the article. After looking at your profile and realizing you probably do know about orthodox music. I stand corrected.

As a side note; you'll see from the edits that I generally do in Jewish music. I happen to have collected all this media and have been researching these topics for decades. And i'm very fluent with every bit of it, including having all the LP's & cassettes to back up these claims. So when someone tries to modify it, I at least try to put input properly. BangKettle (talk) 16:04, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

He's simply not referred to as the Jewish Michael Jackson and if according to Wikipedia rules he should be, then they need to change the rules! 204.128.182.24 (talk) 03:36, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

https://thelakewoodscoop.com/news/king-of-jewish-music-sings-at-wedding-in-lakewood/

https://mostlymusic.com/blogs/jewish-insights/16012785-in-exclusive-vin-interview-king-of-jewish-music-mbd-says-new-release-will-be-final-album?srsltid=AfmBOoofcnDtxDk_8pUVoYkE3dg08KGDXCAZI2ny8oLilqUXVEmqwe0P

https://jewishmusicalnotes.com/shma-bnee-mbd/ 204.128.182.24 (talk) 03:56, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

See my comment above, where this was brought up as a better reference. King of Jewish music is currently well-sourced in the article. As for changing the rules, WP:VPP is the place to go. StonyBrook _babble 05:17, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Sorry for butting into this conversation but is there not a difference that he is commonly known as King of Jewish Music while the Jewish Michael Jackson was only once? Therefore the lead can say "he is known as the King of Jewish Music" while in the article it can say "he has been called the Jewish Elvis" or "Forward have called him the Jewish Michael Jackson"? Yeshivish613 (talk) 18:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Yeshivish613, any user can join in to discuss improvement of this article. You say he is "commonly known as King of Jewish Music". There are sources for this of course (to reiterate, I have not found a single source for "the Jewish Elvis", so we should discard that notion) but we need to realize that these are subjective voices which have an air of promotion about them. In fact, there are other opinions about possible claimants to this title. Now, it is true that MBD seems to have secured his own listing in the WP article about this phenomenon. A quick check however finds that the application of these nicknames to the corresponding lede paragraphs is spotty, with both living and dead artists both having and not having them. I think it is especially important in an article with a lede as short as this one to not add too much weight to a nickname such as this, to avoid the impression that puffery is being made in Wikipedia's voice. Having this in the body rather than the lede is a good way to present the subject matter in a neutral and objective manner, especially given that the accuracy of this nickname may not be on as solid ground as one might think. StonyBrook _babble 17:49, 21 March 2025 (UTC)