WritingWithColor (Posts tagged dehumanization)

1.5M ratings
277k ratings

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna

Black woman cyborg rapper with no feelings and other racial tropes; musical artists are weapons for the military

Anonymous asks:

I am working on a scifi dystopian story. In which musical artists are also turned into human weapons by the military to be used in an intergalactic war as part of their record deal, artists often being given or crafting elaborate stage personas to playone artist is a Black female rapper(L). Her stage persona is an unfeeling cyborg.
I want to use this zany premise to explore the dehumanization and exploitation popular artists face from both the public and the industry.

With L(and others) i wanted to address how BIPOC artists particularly are more often victims of this and in ways different to what white artists experience, L has more cybernetics installed by top brass and is caged by a persona that paints her as unfeeling/“more machine than person” despite how at odds it is with reality and L pushing back against it. A persona crafted by her record label so as to play to the harmful idea Black people feel less pain.

My main concern is that by making it so this character has more weaponry installed in her body then other artists it is unintentionally falling into the trope of Black characters being “stronger” or more “dangerous".

Would making it so all music artists have the same amount of cybernetics help alleviate this issue?(highlighting the choice made by the label to assign this kind of persona to her specifically when all artists have these modifications done to them as being a choice rooted in bigotry and the idea of the strong Black woman trope) or is there more that could be done.

Your story is the social commentary - so lean into it

Is “ making it so this character has more weaponry installed in her body then other artists unintentionally falling into the trope of black characters being “stronger” or more “dangerous"?

Yes…but let’s go back to the word unintentionally. Are you sure it is unintentional of you? Isn’t it your whole point to be intentional about this?

You seem fully aware of the oppressive aspects of what is happening to these characters, and I understand hope to address them directly and make a social commentary. 

So is this not an intentional choice from you and regarding all of the other stereotypical characterization (Strong, unfeeling, dangerous etc.)? 

And do you plan on addressing this in your story and the exploitation that is occurring to your Black cyborg woman character?

Because you must for this to work.

Everything about her existence seems to be social commentary. A story like this, with a character like this, must engage with and acknowledge the racist tropes, stereotypes and storyline being inflicted on your Black character (and any other BIPOC in the story). 

You say you want to explore the dehumanization and exploitation of your characters, so do that. And do it boldly.

Ensure there is the narrative that this is abnormal, oppressive and wrong. 

Of course, there is the side that paints this all as natural and just fine, such as the government, but there should be a strong opposing side (that carries your voice) running through this novel. 

The Hunger Games for example

Think of The Hunger Games series by Suzanne Collins.

While people are fearing for their lives, the whole premise of children fighting to the death is wrong, and we feel that from Katniss, Peeta, and the other major characters. Reading the novel, we experience contrasting opinions, acceptance and resistance, but empathize with the cause for justice and freedom.

image

The Hunger Games, people of the Capitol 

Then you have the villains of the novel, the “neutrals” and complicit. For instance, the elites in the capitol, the sponsors, game makers. Some people had sinister motivations; authority, power, greed, ratings! Hate. Some cared only for the drama and romance, and painted real peoples’ lives as entertainment. And lo and behond, marketing for THG movies did the same thing!

image

Moviespheregold: Team Peeta or Team Gale?

But you do not just get one narrative that paints the games as acceptable. Through your characters, readers can see the truth for themselves – the injustice of it all which the author wants you to see and feel.

The Hunger Games has some parallel to your story topics, particularly on propaganda and weaponization of human bodies. One might say Katniss is used in a similar way. There are even deeper layers here when you consider that Katniss may be Native American coded (based on books).

Another aspect that may help your story to consider

Rina adds:

One of the biggest principal themes Suzanne Collins focused on was the power of televised entertainment to drive state propaganda & complicity in the regime—Katniss’s body is distorted and disguised through the cosmetics and costumes to tell a narrative the Capitol wants to tell, and then again her image is remade into that of a soldier and her disfigurement exploited by District 13 to recruit soldiers in the war they intend to win for themselves.

Research more and read to study

I urge you to:

  • Research even more into what goes into writing a dystopian novel with strong social anti-racist, anti-oppression commentary. I know you’ve done some reading, but I’d advise reading even more from a point of studying the craft.
  • Read well-written dystopian novels for how to give this social commentary in your narrative. I have not read enough dystopian books, at the time of this post, to recommend much, so I’m going to leave it to some of our excellent mods (and you readers) to give your relevant recommendations!
  • See recommendations near the end of this post.
  • Know your history. Delve into some more research. At the very least, these quite dystopian things that are happening in your dystopia are unfortunately just reality. History. 

“When I wrote The Handmaid’s Tale, nothing went into it that had not happened in real life somewhere at some time. The reason I made that rule is that I didn’t want anybody saying, ‘You certainly have an evil imagination, you made up all these bad things.’ I didn’t make them up.”
- Margaret Atwood

As for L, your “unfeeling” Black cyborg

Show the humanity in this cyborg character. There should be a chink in the armor, a crack in the picture of her being unfeeling. Perhaps a depth to the rap where there is allegedly “not supposed” to be. 

Research the history of rap and hip-hop and you’ll know how on-point it would be to use her music as revolutionary in the opposite direction that the government wants to use it.

Give us some contrast, some clear defiance of the stereotypes.

It’s important that your story is bold with the fact that your Black cyborg is an embodiment of racism and oppression. She is assigned this false stereotypical, oppressive narrative. It’s not meant to speak of a truth of these traits simply being a fitting role for a Black woman.

Another important note: Black people, especially women, have been leading social movements for change and liberation from the beginning. Black women leading the change, and in your case, your Black woman cyborg, fuels another social commentary of us being the mules for the world, doing the revolutionary work. This is something else for you to recognize as you write.

~Mod Colette

A veteran’s perspective

I can comment with an auxiliary perspective as a veteran and artist (writer). You’re also tapping something interesting with the idea of the military using BIPOC bodies to advance their agenda at the expense of the individual service members. Historically, while many service members got hazed and experimented on, BIPOC service members were far more likely to suffer these abuses, and to a much greater extent. 

The American intelligence apparatus also has a history of using artists to their advantage – The CIA even created American LiteratureMFAs as a means of peddling American soft power. 

-Mod Melanie

Recommended reading

Keep reading

Black Black women Black stereotypes Black tropes dystopia creator responsibility book recommendations dehumanization ableism military war propaganda war tw asks

How Can I Write About Dehumanization, Body Horror and Transformation Without Dehumanizing My Characters?

@hypertechnica asks:

Hello!! This blog has been instrumental in developing my writing, thank you all for your hard work!

In my writing, I’m very interested in exploring transhumanism and the general concept of “not feeling human” and the becoming, or the feeling of becoming, more, less, or not fully human in my writing. I’m also interested in mutation and transformation related body horror, as well as medical horror. My motivations for these are primarily borne out of my experiences as a trans, autistic, mentally ill mixed race person (white/Latine/Native American.) I’ve never felt fully understood, fully a part of anything, or even fully human, and I tend to write characters with similar experiences.

But I am white passing, and as a holder of white privilege, I’m cautious as to how I represent BIPOC in these kinds of works. I highly dislike writing stories with only white people or having POC be on the sidelines of the white main character’s struggles. But how does one walk the line between a raw, unsanitized depiction of a brown or black person struggling with their mental health and sense of self, and dehumanization and tragedy exploitation?

I don’t want to ignore how race affects that, especially when writing about my own experiences with forced assimilation as a native person. But because of the nature of me, a white native, writing about a visibly native person going through even partially race-related trauma, I want to be as mindful as I can be. I want people to see themselves in these characters, not gawk at their suffering, or worse, alienate the BIPOC viewers I was trying to speak to in the first place.

Grain of salt for all of this because these are not the kinds of stories I find catharsis in, despite sharing many of the same identities (and feelings of alienation/dehumanization) as you. However, some of my friends find extreme catharsis in these kinds of stories, so don’t let the opinion of those who would get triggered by this dissuade you from writing it at all—there will always be different kinds of trauma stories that resonate with different people, and that doesn’t make them bad.

That being said, I am currently going through the journey of unpacking a very similar narrative to this on a personal level with a very similar identity cocktail, so I’ll give it my best shot.

The Pain of White Supremacy

Let’s talk about the identity sacrifice that comes with white supremacy.

White supremacy is an extremely lucrative promise: give up huge swaths of your cultures and traditions, gain leisure that’s supported by a racialized underclass and live like a king. There’s no need to work in fields, do the ugly parts of childrearing, participate in endless work to make clothing. You just sit, and enjoy life, and order people around, while other people around you work.

It’s as boring, hollow, and soul-sucking as it sounds. But many, many, many people make this trade off, because being the underclass supporting this leisure sucks so much and they want a piece of that leisure pie, because leisure is denied to that underclass and the underclass (read: mostly Black people) force ways to take it at risk of their lives. 

A strong aspect to this leisure is you lose most of the aspects of identity, period—humans are busy creatures, and we enjoy exploring hobbies, work, and doing things. Crafting things that reflect yourself, expressing your fashion sense, decorating your space in a way that shows you enjoy things, learning your own tastes via cooking, among others. All of this leads to developing the unshakable sense of pride that comes from expressing yourself regardless of what others think.

Having something that is your own identity that you don’t care how the world treats it is a necessary part of existing, and honestly I’ve found my favourite white people have actual tastes in fashion. Not “trying to look palpable” tastes. “I want to wear as many sparkles and colour as possible” tastes. Dressing fancy to make doing the dishes fun. Because they’re not pinning their entire identities on being good little white people, but are willing to develop a sense of self in a way that lets them weather the identity threat that can come with pointing out “hey, that hurt me.”

(sidebar: in my opinion so many white people, especially progressive white people, focus on “being good” as their primary identity marker, and this is one of the reasons they go nuclear as soon as you point out they did a racism. You threatened the main sense of identity they had, and they react accordingly via the backfire effect. It takes effort to combat this, both with doing things for yourself, and knowing that’s what you’re doing. Weird little hobbies are a fantastic way to start building resilience, instead of putting all your eggs in the “being good” basket. Also learn to take out the trash for your community. Dress up nice and make it fun, but care for the community)

White supremacy demands a very narrow ideal—bland, boring “uniforms” that are why every lifestyle influencer looks the same. Tradwives are a very specific look, as is “old money”. To be subversive in any way is to be crushed, threatened with being an underclass member who will lose everything “earned”. (but, by skin tone, white people have to be loudly in the way of white supremacy to get violence directed towards them*, and even then, it’s usually safer. Not always safer! White people have been killed for being against white supremacy, historically and in the modern day. But usually they’re given a chance to betray the underclassmen before that point, when BIPOC aren’t given those chances. White people are also far more likely to be made martyrs when killed for being against white supremacy, when Black people and other POC aren’t)

And then you get an identity cocktail like the ones you and I share. And we are never, ever going to get full humanity under white supremacy, but everyone compares us to the ideals of white supremacy, and here we realize we will never get the promise that our ancestors traded their culture for.

Now what? We’re stuck. (I don’t have an answer for this, by the way, other than attempting to go through delayed adolescence and try to reject all the culty white supremacist stuff. This is a highly individual path)

I know you feel this, somewhere, and that’s what comes out in your writing. Those feelings of disdain from white supremacy are very real, and they suck. I just needed to explain the factors more plainly so the writing advice makes more sense.

Factors for Audience Resonance

I think something you’ll want to explore before you go set these stories loose on the public—don’t avoid writing them, you can have personal projects that are as politically incorrect as you want, and obviously this is cathartic for you—is how this “lack of humanity from not meeting ideals” is a white racial trait that comes directly from white supremacy and is a cost of white privilege. 

The thing about being in this space of the fringes of whiteness—still white-ish, still passing, but with potential to be idealized white if you just behaved “correctly”, dehumanized to alienation if we don’t—is it’s not a dance all groups have to or can navigate. The farther you stray from Eurocentric beauty standards (pale, Western European features), the less potential you have to be viewed as white under this system no matter what you give up. As a result, they are more likely to create culture and identity that is reflective of themselves and their communities as a reprieve from white supremacy. Again, not all, some do actively try to align themselves with white supremacy because of what’s going on in their lives, but broadly speaking.

This leads to a much different flavour of trauma than a white passing individual, who is often navigating this subconscious “but, I could, if only—” and who has often been raised to give up as much of our identity as possible to be palpable to white supremacist ideals, or the child of someone who was raised that way who’s kinda adrift in white “communities”. It’s a much more active choice, to be far away from whiteness and still choose to be an active ally of white supremacy; it’s a much stronger rejection of community and bonds.

The forces pressing down are the same. We are all living in a white supremacist system. But the promises are much, much different depending on potential to be accepted as white. If you or I stay quiet, stay bland, mask, white people have a potential for accepting us. The same cannot be said for a Black person. (jealousy of groups with unique identity is often why white people are such culture vultures; white supremacy has a distinct lack of identity, but humans like having an identity)

Meanwhile, Black or other “distant from whiteness” people are, often at best, just given the promises of being spared, and “one of the good ones”, and they believe these promises to parrot white supremacist talking points. They’re almost never spared, it’s temporary at best, but deals with white devils often look very good. 

Black people and other “unacceptable” groups have different dances when faced with being dehumanized by a white supremacist system. There will be overlap—I’m not going to pretend Black people reading this won’t resonate with your experience—but the end result of compliance will be much different. We can take the culture off, we can mask, and sure it’s a cost and it’s utterly dehumanizing but it’s an option. An option we have to reject to be good allies, because white supremacy is a delusion.

All this to say, there are character factors you can research to see why people would try to make these deals with devils, or how they would navigate recovery from being chewed up and spit out by these systems. This would allow you to examine broader factors that make the writing much richer, because you’ll become more aware of experiences outside of your own and infuse that in your work.

On Writing

I know this probably feels like it doesn’t answer your question, but what I’m getting at is: if you want other BIPOC to resonate with your experience, you have to recognize what aspects of your experience are racialized, and how different identity factors create different conversations with white supremacy. You also need to research what might make people make “non-progressive” choices, or how they might be preyed upon, or all of these things. 

By exploring those intersections and acknowledging your feelings come explicitly from your white passing trauma, and generational trade-offs ancestors made to try and get that leisure at the cost of their humanity, you give yourself space to fill in the gaps—how would Black experiences under such a dehumanizing system differ, where the threats and promises are much different? How do these same themes change when groups are trying to buy into whiteness with more notably non-European features, or when they reject it and learn to retreat into their own communities to build networks? What would make them neutral, what would make them targets?

You are writing stories about how it feels to experience white supremacy as someone who is white but will never be the ideal white person by nature, therefore losing status among white people. By understanding and respecting that, you in turn create a scenario where you can ask more questions about how others might experience these things, which can open yourself up for more representation and help you unpack white supremacy to be a better ally to those who never had the option to gain status under the system the way we do. The trade-offs to be white are not worth it, even though we might have to concede to them to survive sometimes.

I hope this helps you both heal from white supremacy and write better stories.

- Leigh

* this segment was written before the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti, when there hadn’t been a high-profile murder of a white ally in a very long time. ICE is an extension of colonial violence that seeks to destroy anyone against them, when white supremacy had, all of last year, been more about maintaining the illusion they were protecting other white people, or protecting “good” marginalized group members, from “the other” or “the bad ones.” It was never about that, but the PR was fantastic. White women in particular are told that they’re the most cherished, but they’re still not seen as full beings and often are disposed of as soon as they challenge the status quo—but that hasn’t been on display in a long, long while. Helpful, soft-spoken men are also seen as lesser, with white supremacy only wanting men to hold a specific type of violent power.

Over the centuries racism and white supremacy had circled the wagons around the concept of white people, offering promises of acceptance to white passing people, offering promises of acceptance to anyone who kowtowed to whiteness even if they didn’t look white, trying to increase its numbers. They hit a critical mass of numbers in 2024, and are now doing what I’ve been saying they’d do for many, many years once white supremacists and colonizers hit that critical mass: consume everything standing in their path, even if that’s other white people

And, like most overt white supremacists, they’re cowards seeking to dominate others to feel something. 

If you want to support Minneapolis right now, click here.

If you want to stop white supremacy, build community and let these bastards know they are small, pitiful, soulless people who are not welcome here.

Get your weird little hobbies, develop tastes that are uniquely yours, and start doing unglamourous things for your community with outfits that make you feel good and comfort food after to celebrate. The system collapses as soon as people stop trying to get this blood-tained promise—which includes playing hero in huge spectacles. You will never be good enough to be safe, so stop chasing dishonest harmony and start building who you are with the people around you.

(a lot of this post has been influenced by me reading the book White Women Get Ready by Amanda Gross, and Conspirituality by Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker)

dehumanization body horror identity asks white supremacy colonialism BIPOC Indigenous Black own voices ice tw

Jewish MC whose eyes turn black or white when she uses magic

fatheriimaginedyoutaller asked:

Is giving a Jewish protagonist eyes that change colors when she’s using magic reminiscent of any antisemitic trope? To be more specific her eyes change from brown to pupilless black or white depending on what type of magic she’s using. If she’s using “tangible magic” (I.e moving an object with her mind) her eyes will turn white and if she’s using “untangible magic” (I.e reading someone’s else mind) they will turn black.

This sounds like a creative idea and there are no obvious problems jumping out at me. I felt a little bit of discomfort at the suggestion which I think on reflection comes from the similarity to rat eyes: 

image

(Image above shows a rat with black eyes, no discernible pupils)

But in the context of a well-rounded character, as long as she doesn’t have any other rodent-like features, I’m fine with it.

As usual, I’d ask you to watch out for tropes that can be tied into magic, such as using powers to control wealth, governments or the media.

It’s also worth saying that, from an Orthodox point of view, magic is not allowed as a separate or rival force to Hashem. It would have to be part of Hashem’s power, in the same way that Moses could manipulate animals, rivers, oceans etc using his staff, but this was channeling a miracle rather than performing magic.

-Shoshi

Note: Shoshi used the word “Hashem” above. For those unfamiliar, Jewish tradition has many different names and nicknames for God. “Hashem” is a name that is typical for casual use. It translates literally as “The Name.”  —WWC Jewish team

Jewish antisemitism description eyes Terminology asks rats dehumanization rats tw

kamen-rider-zed asked:

Writing a piece with a black character who is a martial artist (think Taimak in The Last Dragon). At some point in the story, I want him to obtain the powers of the Monkey King. I ran this by my beta reader in a brainstorming session, and she introduced me to the "porch monkey" stereotype. I'd never heard it before (maybe it's a regional thing), and I'm wondering if I should change the character's background to avoid potential issues with the stereotype, or would it be fine so long as it's just "black martial artist with Monkey King powers" and no one acknowledges anything beyond that?

Black martial artist with monkey king powers - racist depictions

Please DO NOT associate Black Americans, Black people or any people from the Afro Diaspora in general with monkeys or as having monkey-like traits or powers. Calling and depicting Black people as monkeys has historically and presently still has been used to dehumanize Black people. Look no further than the anti-Black imagery and propaganda in America’s history. I’ll spare you the imagery but it’s easy to look up.

Or the modern accounts, Black football (soccer) players having bananas thrown at them from the stands. Just recently, a parent in my state was speaking out about racism in the suburbs on the news…a town where his Black daughter was often called a monkey and taunted by her classmates.

If a Black writer wants to tackle the connection of Black people + monkeys, that’s something for an actual Black person to reclaim and present. As a non-Black writer, please absolutely avoid this. It’ll come off as ignorant, racist or both.

Making improvements

Now, I do not recommend downgrading the importance of this Black character’s role in your story. Representation shouldn’t be taken away from someone because of an initially problematic idea.

What I do suggest is reworking things to give the Black character a power from a different source. You could place the Monkey King powers to a person within the group of its origin or another group that doesn’t have racial monkey connotations.

~Mod Colette

racism stereotypes Black stereotypes tw dehumanization dehumanization asks

carpet-snark asked:

Hello, I’m a big fan of your blog! 
I’m writing a zombie apocalypse story centered around a group of scientists. One of the main characters is a person who’s infected with the virus, but hasn’t lost their ability to think. Basically, someone with a zombie virus who isn’t a zombie.I plan to write the infected person as a Black, non binary, AFAB character. The “zombie” isn’t the villain in the story, or any sort of antagonist. (1/2)

But is it inappropriate to make a Black person a “monster,” regardless of story context? If it matters, this wouldn’t be the only POC main character. I apologize if this question seems obvious or silly. I want to include good representation in my stories, but as a white man, I’m very nervous about attempting it. (2/2)

Black Zombie with “soundness of mind”

From the Black part of this character alone:

I personally do not mind a Black zombie character. They’re not the antagonist, which isn’t even “off-limits” in itself as Black villains can be quite compelling. And, hopefully, they are not the only zombie or undead being in the story. A zombie that isn’t driven by their infected instincts can be an interesting topic to explore. You mention there’s other POC, But I would say go beyond that and ensure there’s at least another non-zombie 1)Black person and 2)non-binary character, if not both (ideally). Representation for other People of Color and Black people isn’t interchangeable. 

Now, before you take my response and run with it - I cannot speak on how this bodes for representation to a Black nonbinary AFAB person specifically, or if this is problematic or dehumanizing on that front. I welcome the opinions of those who can answer this!

~Mod Colette

I’d like to second Colette’s answer. I think it would be an interesting twist and the virology topic would be an interesting one to explore (speaks to me as a ex-microbiologist). 

There doesn’t have to be a problem with monster POC if several pitfalls have been kept in mind as Colette has mentioned. Have there be non-zombie non-binary Black people as well as zombies coming from diverse backgrounds as well. 

The problem of monster POC and dehumanization often comes from how they are being written. The words you use to describe, the way you develop the characteristics of the monsters, and the way they interplay with existing stereotypes. 

~Mod Alice

We’d also like to mention to be careful of mental illness and ableism with “mindlessness” tropes. I do not feel qualified to talk on it too much, but it’s something that might be worth exploring. There are think pieces on the topic. At the same time, one should respect where zombies come from and its cultural roots in Haiti!

Commentary

archivesofalexandria said:

Black trans woman that just so happens to be a non-binary one. This *sounds* okay, there are just some things to kind of maybe consider. 

Um. White transgender people’s ability to understand just how differently gender shows up due to racialization can be somewhat limited. Thus, even when they’re trying to be affirming, this can lead to white trans people projecting racist validations outwards.

The other thing is how Blackness is used as something masculinizing to invalidate the autonomy and gender of Black transgender people/non-men/femmes in various circumstances. Yes, as a Black character their Blackness and their gender will be one and the same - that’s a good thing - but  like …. am I making sense here???

I’m not saying they need to be femme/not masc, I’m saying that even in the case of them being masc/butch/neither, that it’s not something that should be used to minimize their humanity or limit the potential range(s) of their gender, butvas something empowering/fulfilling/rewarding.

youcannotbesirius said:

Unrelated to any discussion of whether or not this is appropriate, and purely on an epidemiological front, I was curious as to what virus this is based around? Traditional zombie viruses are based around the rabies virus, IIRC- With a character who carries the virus and doesn’t have the associated loss of faculties, could they still have the compulsion to pass on the virus that exists in the ‘normal’ rabies virus?

(the reason rabid animals act the way they do is because it’s how the rabies virus propagates itself- overactive salivary glands because that’s how the virus is passed, biting behavior because of the same, hydrophobia, active during the day, etc-) given zombie 'viruses’ are passed with a bite, could a living patient with a zombie virus have similar compulsions?

Like being lonely and seeking out other people, or a fear of drinking water due to painful swallowing, etc

carpet-snark black characters supernatural beings zombies monsters dehumanization characterization asks

Black characters with wings

Are Black characters with wings dehumanizing?

Anonymous asked:

Hey! I have a current fantasy world in which spirits historically each bestowed an ability/power on groups of people around the world to help them, which could then be passed down to children. Most people don’t have abilities, but those who do broadly belong to the same race as others with the same ability, since this was before periods of extensive migration in-universe.

My specific issue is this - I have a few main characters for one story set in another country in this universe, two of whom do not have any ability and are non-Black people of colour. The third is Black and does have an ability, with the lore being that her ancestors and their (all-Black) village were granted feathered wings which she inherited. I didn’t realise it at first, but I’m now concerned about having potentially dehumanised her with this. She is, and is treated as, entirely human, and she is very central to the story, having her own arc - but while I’m not aware of Black people having been compared to birds unfavourably, she does still have a notable non-human trait associated with animals. There isn’t really room for any more main characters, so apart from having minor, ability-less Black characters, I wouldn’t be able to effectively offset this within this story.

It’s become plot-relevant that she can fly, so I’m hesitant to cut her wings entirely. There’s no mention of her or the wings being ‘bird-like’, and I’m thinking of including some non-Black people among the original people given wings and their descendants. If I were to keep this, would there be anything else you’d advise to avoid the insinuation of Black people as more animalistic than other races?

Thank you!

Black characters with wings are fine, in my opinion. It could be very cool and welcome to see a character like this. There are some things to keep in mind.

“I’m thinking of including some non-Black people among the original people given wings and their descendants”

Good idea. My perspective is to:

  1. Not single out one group of people with animal or non-human traits without applying it to other groups as well. It doesn’t have to be wings too, but that’s one way to do it (i.e. Non-Black characters that have wings). 
  2. Have non-winged, not animal-associated Black characters. Even in a limited cast with a briefly featured character, I think this, and the point above, makes a difference.

Regarding birds specifically: We’ve discussed Black characters and birds in Associating Black Witches with Black Birds

So have a read.

~Colette

A cheating Black queen, Black prince with wings and  fantasy discrimination:

@crowwearingahat asked:

I’m Mexican and my story has two plotlines, one is where a black prince has wings, and is discriminated against because of them. His mother, the queen, had an affair that she wasn’t proud of with someone who had wings. The characters with wings are treated like unpredictable wild types. He takes the throne from her when he realizes that no one would try to stop him due to everyone’s hate for the queen, and she’s imprisoned. I wasn’t sure if the wings, or overall narrative of his story would be a problem.

The wings aren’t the issue. Take care that the bestial and barbaric descriptors do not only apply to characters that have Black characteristics. 

-Norma 

The wings

Since wings are associated with being unpredictable and wild, please make sure that Black people or other People of Color are not the only characters with wings, or a characteristic with similar stereotypes. Also, if he clearly isn’t an unpredictable or “wild” person, in spite of what people might assume, that would help prove that the wings = wild is merely a stereotype. 

The adulterer queen 

I am a bit concerned about this hated queen - there’s a plotline in which a woman, a Black woman in this case, cheats or is the other woman. Due to her actions, she is hated and disgraced. Meanwhile, Kings and men who do the same are not reprimanded harshly, if at all, for their affairs, mistresses, or even for having “bastards.”

The queen did a bad thing, but be mindful not to veer too close to racialized misogyny. It’s fine to have Black characters who are not perfect, likable or even sympathetic. It gets uncomfortable when the narrative harshly punishes (Black) women for their moral crimes to the point that she is dehumanized. Although, the narrative could address the harshness and what might truly motivate it. 

If the people are angrier that she had an affair with a winged person particularly, then you could show that it’s more about who she was with (due to their prejudice) vs. making her out to be an irredeemable, flat character with no defining traits or arc besides being a cheater and a villain of the people. We get that she cheated. Now, I’d also want to know how she rules her land, treats the people around her, deals with diplomacy, etc. 

Just allowing her to be a person beyond a cheater does not mean you’re trying to make her sympathetic. It merely shows us that she’s a human too, and allows readers to feel how they want to feel about the character without being pushed into the direction the author wants them to go (in this case, of passionately resenting her for being a cheater and giving us little else). I personally think it makes for a more interesting story if she isn’t just shown to be this flat villainous person, but someone who has to wake up everyday and rule, while being hated for her mistake, and the resulting actions and emotions that come from that.

On that note: The son clearly has little loyalty to the Queen mother, nor do the people. What makes her winged son someone they can accept as their ruler, assuming they do? 

Thanks for asking!

~Mod Colette

fantastic racism fantasy racism black characters supernatural beings characterization Black black women misogynoir dehumanization asks adultery

eccentricextrovert asked:

so, when i was a young teenager (about 13), i created a fantasy world based off of fairytales, with characters that were predominantly white, and or jewish, as that's what i am. over the years it's been diversified, with characters changing to reflect some of the countries of origin that the stories have come from (all through coding, as this is a series set in a world i created). i've become attached and can no longer see these characters as white (honestly taking out the descriptions and pieces of coding would just feel wrong at this point, and isn't something i want to do in any way) however, several issues have popped up as i've grown and my consciousness about what can be deemed as problematic representation has grown. firstly, many of my characters have eurocentric names still. as a writer it's hard to rename characters i've been working with for over a decade, and for some characters it makes sense (for example, the main characters of one of my series is a princess, half white and half iranian, though coding makes this more vague, and has a mostly european name as she's the heir to her father's kingdom, and her father was the one to name her) however, for other characters i'm aware that it doesn't make sense, and am having trouble renaming them as the names no longer feel like the same character. tips on this would be appreciated!

another issue i've run into is that in being fairytale inspired, a small handful of my characters (only two or three) spend some time as animals in the series, a critique i've seen of disney films such as princess and the frog. out of these characters only one is a person of color (the princess from before) and she spends half of her time as a human, as her book is based off of the swan princess, as opposed to one of my white characters, who's in my retelling of beauty and the beast as the beast (with the "beauty" being an indian character i've been having issues renaming).

i feel like in comparison to religion, which has been very simple for me to integrate due to my own personal experience, as well as overlaps in the muslim and jewish faith (both of which i have characters from), my handling of race and making sure that my meaning and intentions are clear doesn't translate as well. td;lr: i conceptualized characters as white when i was a child and nearly a decade later am having issues with making sure that i don't portray the changes i've made wrong, as well as renaming characters that have had set names in my mind for this time

Can my characters of color from non-European backgrounds have European names? Also, Characters of Color spending screen-time in animal form

Names

It’s good that you’ve recognized where you’re having difficulty with this. While there may be scenarios in which a character of color has a Eurocentric name for plot reasons, it’s done so often that it wouldn’t feel quite as genuine, as you mentioned. For your Indian character, you will likely need to go more in depth on her background in order to find a name that feels authentic to her character. Check out our naming guide, as well as this previous post as to why we feel that characters of South Asian origin, as well as all other characters of color, should be able to have names that reflect their background. I would suggest looking for names that have a) a similar syllabic/phonetic structure to your previous names and/or b) similar meaning. To make it a bit easier, try to look for names that have a traceable origin before trying to make up your own. 

For your animal shifting characters

look here for some commentary from mod Colette on the connotations of racism in animal transformation. Since you’re not solely transforming a character of color, and the swan princess is presumably going to spend most of her interactions as a human, it doesn’t really ping as fantastic racism.

In terms of your swan princess in particular, while swans tend to be a good-neutral association, many of the original stories of swan maidens tended to center around the maidens being rendered helpless by a man stealing their ‘swan-skins’ and forcing them into a situation where they had to escape or simply acquiesce to their captors’ demands. This can get dicey–where are you intending to go with it beyond the inspiration?? 

Finally, I’m assuming you’ve included multiple specific cultural aspects and traits that indicate the bases you’re drawing your coding from. Reflect on the manner in which you’ve done so and see how it compares to your sources of inspiration. Then, see how your biases/impressions have affected your coding.

~Abhaya

A few notes on the Iranian-coded character

Firstly, you mentioned that you chose your characters’ cultural coding based on where their stories originated from, but Swan Princess is not an Iranian story. Is there a different inspiration for making her Iranian, then? I admit I’m a bit confused on that front.

Secondly I don’t see anything inherently problematic about giving her a European-sounding name. But coupled with the fact that she lives in and is the heir to her (European) father’s kingdom, I would advise you to make sure you’re also giving her cultural connections to her mother’s culture. Writing mixed characters can be tricky, and if you make her essentially disconnected from one of her two cultures, you’re creating a lot of baggage that can be hard to address appropriately, especially if you don’t have that experience yourself.

Some ideas of how to emphasize her connection to her Iranian culture:

  • Give her an Iranian middle name and/or a hyphenated surname
  • Have her eat Iranian food–maybe it’s hard to come by in her European kingdom, but she has special treats shipped to her and cherishes them? Or maybe she has Iranian cooks and staff in the palace that make her favorite dishes for her?
  • Mention that she visits her mother’s country regularly, or if she can’t (with a good reason why), that she misses it
  • Give her Iranian clothes and jewelry and explore her relationship to those: does she feel comfortable wearing them on a daily basis if the fashion where she lives is very different? Or does she only wear them on special occasions? Does she make a point to use them to honor her culture?
  • Have her make references to Iranian stories, songs, and poetry that she likes. Is it something her mother taught her as a child? Is she still immersed in them now?
  • If your worldbuilding includes different languages, mention that she speaks the Iranian-analog language. Who does she speak it with? Do people in her European-coded kingdom speak it too? If not, are there other Iranian characters around who can speak it with her and engage in her culture with her? (if you don’t have any, I highly encourage you to consider including them)

Which brings me to my last point: make sure she’s not your only representation of an Iranian character. All of the things you’re worried about are much less of an issue if they’re not happening to the only Iranian-coded character in the story. If you have other Iranian characters with relatively important, positive roles who have Iranian names and don’t spend half their time as animals, then it becomes easier to see this specific character as just a character instead of a trope.

- Niki

names animals animal shifters South Asian Iranian culture dehumanization asks

and-void asked:

Hi! I'm writing a fantasy story rn and was interested in your opinion about a part of it. One of the main characters is a Black elf named Enrel, and she has an animal companion of sorts, a black panther called Jox. Enrel was a dnd character I made and later adapted into a character for this story, so I've changed a lot about her origins and stuff since ideally she's going to be in a published novel and there were things about her character and backstory I hadn't really considered critically before I moved her over to the new story. Mostly, I was concerned about whether or not it would be weird for her to have a panther companion. Jox isn't bonded to her by anything but his own emotional attachment to her (he's a familiar who's bonded to her parents. in the world, there are spells that can form bonds between people and animals that give the animals longer lives and human-like intelligence (wizards didn't want their pets to die and that was the result), and Enrel's parents formed one with Jox when he was a cub, so he's basically Enrel's third parent? at least he feels that way haha) and Enrel ran away from home after a traumatic event so he followed her to make sure she was safe. My concern is that a) I don't want their relationship to fall into the "character of color who's super in-tune with nature and animals" trope (I've changed Enrel's relationship with Jox a lot from where it started to avoid this, but I'm not sure if it could still be read that way despite my efforts), and b) I'm not sure if me (a white writer) giving my Black character a panther friend would give off weird vibes or not since black panthers are symbolic in real-world Black rights movements, and I don't want that aspect of their characters to be read like some sort of reference or something like that (I made Jox a panther originally because I really love black cats and didn't realize that there could be other implications about Jox and Enrel specifically). I'd really appreciate your opinion about this, and I'm also open to further discussion if there are things you think would be good to have conversation about (or if parts of this ask need to be expanded upon). Thanks so much for your time! :)

Black elf with black panther companion

I think this is just fine. I love animal familiars! This does not feel dehumanizing. 

You make a clear distinction between the elf people and animals, so it doesn’t feel like you’re equating the Black elf to animals. It’s going to help to have other non-Black characters with special ties to animals (including white coded elves if they exist in your story), but I think your history takes care of that, even if you don’t have other active characters with familiars (seeing as a spell was used to form the bond).

As for the black panther itself: If you provide the readers the reason for the black panther vs. some other animal or big cat, that would help steer thinking away from any other symbolism. 

However -You might not be able to completely erase the association or assumed symbolism. Our choices don’t exist in a vacuum, and we can’t simply make folks not compare our stories to real life context. Not that it’s a deal breaker if people wonder if you’re choosing black panthers for reasons other than you love black cats. 

If it’s really something you don’t want people to connect, you’d need to 

1) really sell the reason or alternative meaning as to why it’s a black panther and not something else. And even so, people might still connect it to real life black panther symbolism) 

or

2) Change the familiar to a different animal or another big cat. If you want it to be black (because you like black cats. I absolutely don’t think you should make it a black animal because the character is Black.) there’s always… 

  • black jaguars
  • an actual black domesticated or purebreed cat 
  • Black wild cat (serval, melanistic wild cat)
  • or a cat mixed with a wildcat (e.g. Savannah cat)
  • Silver fox (although, it’s actually a canine, but they’re just adorable!)

~Mod Colette

elf Black Black women elves fantasy creatures supernatural beings animals dehumanization symbolism color symbolism asks

oscarjamesleigh asked:

Hello, I've seen your blog a few times now and now seems like an appropriate time to consult you.

My first questiom is about goblins and Jewishness, I know, old topic. Within my story I have a species referred to as kobolds, which in this world is a word in their own language. The kind of mainline bloodstream are referred to as spriggans. At one point I considered making them elves, and I don't think Jewish comparisons would be much of a problem? However, they also have an offshoot race which are referred to as goblins, a sort of slur from the spriggans, they refer to themselves as dalkin. Given the kobolds are short reptilian creatures with big ears, the Jewish comparison is problematic, especially while spriggans like to live in or near trees the dalking are often forced to shelter underground.

The comparison didn't immediately occur to me until I saw discussion of Rowling's goblins, but I have been trying to avoid it since realising. Happily, it was already the case that my kobolds actually have smallish noses rather than large hooked noses. And while the spriggans are reasonably well-off, in a normal sort of integrated way, the dalkin are actually poor rather than a rich cabal. And I want to intentionally avoid any notion of gold loving or shiny metal fetishism as a goblin trope. Furthermore, the various dialects of kobold are all drawn from Celtic and Germanic languages (like Irish and the Frisian languages) and the dalkin dialect includes click-consonants which are found in Southern Africa and some Australian Aboriginal languages, but not Hebrew. However, I worry if I should do more to de-emphasise and avoid the comparison. I would add Jewish humans, but there are no Jewish people in the fantasy setting (and no monotheism in a setting with various real gods talking to people).

On issue in particular I have mixed feelings about is there origin. I based the dalkin history on genetics. The spriggan already have four racial castes that were originally separate tribes. The dalkin are a further mutation arising from within the highest caste, which was particularly drove their exile given the high-caste's superiority feeling threatened by "impurity". To me this was always more of a parallel to the struggles of mixed-race people but I could see a comparison to a Jewish infiltration narrative? The spriggans have more leaf-shaped omnivorous teeth but the dalkin have sharper teeth like a predator. And while the highest caste is white-scaled, the dalkin have a slightly different tone and texture of it (is that an awkward parallel to the Nazi idea that European Jews are "fake white?). They are also often on the shorter end of kobolds because of their unreliable nutrition (although on that noteI have a major dalkin character in mind who is actually quite tallk for a kobold). The upside of that is shorter kobolds generally also have less proportionately-large ears.

Anyway, there is an element of them engaging in raiding others and scavenging any avaliable resources in order to survive as outcasts from those around them. Is that maybe too much of a "Jewish theft" idea or is it safer outside the banking association? I intend to make a point that any theft they have engaged in is specifically a survival-response to being exiled and the solution is to include and support them rather than blaming them. I also intend to specifically emphasise the idea cultural and linguistic diversity should be respected, including the idea of respectful endonyms with the term dalkin.

In conclusion, I have been trying to avoid Jewish parallels and I intend to take the idea of marginalised race struggle as a major theme with stereotypes and victim-blaming being addressed. However, I worry the Jewish comparison is still too strong and elements like occasional might come off as a negative generalisation, especially at earlier points in the story before prejudice is fully addressed.

Sorry for the long ask.

Distancing from Jewish goblin coding leading to Indigenous unfortunate implications

Jewish goblins and Jewish theft questions

Splitting hairs, but having goblins speaking a Germanic language doesn’t exactly unJewify them, given the existence and former prevalence of Yiddish (which, if you don’t know, is sort of – I’m oversimpliying – a dialect of German, with Polish added like a splash of Tabasco, written with the Hebrew alphabet. It’s an Ashkenazi thing, and it sounds like this: Ich hab lib zu shpiln fidl.)

I’m okay with little sentient critters scavenging because they’ve been made to have to, by an unfair society; that’s being set up to coach the reader to sympathize with their actions. What is giving me pause is the racialized elements of this. Are you a mixed race (human) person using fantasy to explore themes of mixed race discrimination? Or are you a white person talking about the struggles of mixed race humans by talking about mixed race little creatures? I dunno, this is just something I would not feel personally qualified to write.

Remember, the key to writing inhuman characters who share a trait, like click-consonants for example, with a real-life marginalized group of humans is to make sure the characters are not conventionally distasteful across the board.

As far as Jewish goblin tropes specifically, though, I think you’re on the right track by having them not have The Nose and making their need for resources genuine, thus humanizing them.

–Shira

P.S. And now I yield the podium to Lesya, because this question concerns far more than just Jewish representation honestly.

Indigenous parallels

I would suggest to stop worrying about the Jewish parallels and start worrying, a lot, about the Indigenous parallels.

You’ve got this very, very solid basis in high and low elves with this, which tells me you’re pulling from the grab back of stock fantasy tropes without examining what you’re grabbing. I say you have not examined it because you haven’t asked about it.

I say this with no judgement, and with no bias towards you: your fixes are just as fumbled as the original idea, as a result.

I say this with no judgement because I know how ingrained Indigenous stereotypes are in fantasy, especially around the concept of elves, which you’ve pulled from in an attempt to distance these beings from Jewish stereotypes.

I just want to point out the tunnel vision depicted in this ask, in the hopes you can learn how to make better fixes in the future. 

Elves

For starters, the high/low of any fantasy race is often pulling from Norse Mythology’s Dökkálfar and Ljósálfar. The Ljósálfar are Tolkien’s “high elves”, which is what your spriggans look like: haughty, elitist, powerful, judgemental. The Dökkálfar are dark elves like the drow, who come with black skin and are considered morally corrupt—much like your dalkin. You do hint that you recognize this parallel, for how you did want to make them elves. Except it would appear you haven’t done research into elves that heavily, for not seeing some issues with this.

Elves is where the coding starts veering into Indigenous stereotype, especially for the late 1800s/early 1900s when fantasy got its roots. And this was a period of dual-edged colonialism where people either thought Natives were so good and pure and the epitome of humanity because we were so close to nature and Europeans should emulate that, or we were some sort of subhuman that were relics of the stone age that needed to be brought up to modern progress (and that opinion changed tribe by tribe). 

And even within those broad attitudes, you can get those who hated us for being so close to nature and considering us the judgemental ones for wanting people to be sustainable, or you could get those who pitied how subhuman they saw us as.

With high/low societies like this, you end up taking a little from column A, and a little from column B. And, in my opinion, the worst part about this level of coding is it removes white people imposing these attitudes onto us completely and instead makes us the villains, just the way colonialism wants.

In your attempt to distance the darklings from Jewish coding, you begin taking South African and Australian Aboriginal languages, therefore overtly coding your goblin-elvish race as Indigenous. Linguistic coding is one of the most powerful, and it’s the first things to use when trying to create a really strong real world parallel.

And then you didn’t ask one question about the implications of that.

Here are some of the places this has a lot of problems:

1

Australian Aboriginals and South African tribes are Black. Both were rather literally considered primitive stone-aged peoples when they first had contact. They were, in various circles, not even considered homo-sapien. Having this group of people use Australian Aboriginal and South African languages when they are considered “cast offs” sends a very loaded message that has an incredibly racist history.

In North America, there is an extreme double standard between Afro-Indigenous and white-Indigenous tribal enrollment, which you are paralleling, just without any actual mixed race people. I’d suggest looking up stuff like the Dawes Act to see exactly what history you’re tapping into here, and adjust accordingly.

3

There are heavy blood quotient implications, where the closer to “pureblood” you are the more privilege you have, which is ridiculous race-biology-essentialism that has no basis whatsoever in science and has been used to try and dis-enroll Native peoples for centuries come this point, because anyone below a certain percentage is considered “too mixed” to have any value to Native culture when it’s not blood percentage that determines our connection to things.

So as you can see. You have a lot more research to do in a totally different direction than you’d originally thought. And the flags that you needed to do that were right in the ask: you said you wanted to make these elves; you said you were pulling from Indigenous languages. These are right there on the surface for a new set of implications. And you did not ask about them.

I do hope this is all subconscious, and you’re probably reading my post going “oh my god why didn’t I even realize this was a problem with Indigenous peoples”, and I can understand that. 

But.

In your rush to distance these beings from being Jewish, you’ve taken Indigenous. You’ve pulled from “unique” groups that are mostly talked about in the past tense, and from groups that were treated as freakshow attractions before they vanished from public consciousness. That’s really loaded.

And you’ve taken the pale skinned, wealthy group and made them into a people—Celts— that white supremacy has appropriated to try and show themselves as superior because, oh look, we come from these “magic ancient warrior peoples.” Ancient Germanic peoples are also worshiped under white supremacy, albeit less than the Celts (Germanic people are more along the lines of wanting to return to the time before Rome colonized, which is a very muddy part of history that can be conveniently whitewashed to show the “original” people of Europe were so much better than the Romans). 

And you’ve taken the dark skinned, poor group and made them into the overt Indigenous cast offs when that is exactly what white supremacy did to them. You’re tapping into the not talked about but very present Indigenous thief narrative which paints us as amoral and tricksters trying to cheat good people out of their money because we’re selfish, not because we’re disenfranchised and have boundaries around how to use the land.

This goes beyond “I need to make sure that black isn’t a synonym for evil.” This is overtly recreating white supremacist history right in the structure of the setting and the circumstances of the people and not realizing how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Australian Aboriginals and South African tribes were considered sub-human by the same group of people who gave the Nazis the concept of root races. Jewish people were considered part of the fourth root race, with aryans as the fifth. And the particular Indigenous groups you’ve cited were considered the third root race, the first root race to be even humanoid shape but not fully human.

That is the legacy you’re pulling from, here, all you’ve done is flipped which came first. That isn’t enough to distance yourself from these implications. You’ve (accidentally, I’m sure) paralleled something you’re not aware of, and that means you will probably fumble because you don’t know what you’re working with.

If you’re overtly trying to show a critique of how white supremacy deifies some Indigenous groups and totally casts out others? This is bang on the money for that. I’m not sure if that’s your story to tell, but you’ve certainly matched the parallels.

Tropes are not neutral. They are tools in the sense you use them to build a story, but tropes come from somewhere. And with fantasy being codified by so many white men in very colonial eras of human history, the basic frameworks of how fantasy “should” work are… problems. And that’s an understatement.

Ask yourself

  • Why did you make groups the “lesser” group so heavily coded with Indigenous languages? 
  • Why did it not feel important to ask about using Indigenous languages?
  •  Why did you decide that Indigenous peoples are the farthest away from Jewish you can imagine? 

You ask is not as simple as “is this a Jewish stereotype?”. Your ask shows the problems when you approach coding from an “I don’t want to offend x” standpoint, instead of a “why did I decide to put these traits together?” standpoint. It’s why we have our Motivations PSA: to have people step back and see their own red flags, written right in what they’ve sent.

By focusing so heavily on Jewish stereotypes, you haven’t taken any time to breathe and look at what else is in the unfortunate implications of fantasy stew. I’ve given you a direction to look into research, and I do hope you take it.

Again: none of this is said with any personal judgements on you. I get anxiety at “doing it right.” I get not knowing what you don’t know. I get how subconscious and baked in all of this stuff is to fantasy where you don’t even realize.

I just ask that you think about what you are doing, what your motives are, and why you want to put all of these particular traits together. And maybe reconsider if you don’t want to reinforce all of the above.

~ Mod Lesya

Jewish Jewish characters Jewish goblins Jewish stereotypes languages Indigenous blood quotient Black Aboriginal Australian Aboriginal elves dehumanization History coding creator responsibility trace your logic fantastic racism racism in writing asks race coding religion coding

Comparing Black girl’s hair to poodle

@chickenturtlemonkeytime asked:

I note on your site that using “wooly” to describe Black hair “is generally not acceptable anymore and comes off as dehumanizing due to Animal connotations.” But what would you think of describing a Black girl as “a precocious eight-year-old, with her black curls tied into pigtails that flared like an exploding poodle”? I’m basing this description on a childhood photo of the next American president, Kamala Harris.

We aren’t fans of this comparison. It’s a bit uncomfy, the comparison of a Black girl’s hair to a dog, even if it’s not meant as an insult. Black readers may take it offensively, some might not care, but it’s personally enough to cause pause for us. 

How necessary is this particular comparison? I think it’s meant to convey a child-like, playful nature to her hair. You can do this in other ways without the comparison to dogs or other animals. How about describing the movement? Or simply using non-animal comparisons? 

Some examples:

“Her black curls were tied into pigtails. They bounced as she skipped around the yard”

“Black curls swinging like robes of black licorice around her ears” (btw - it’s okay to compare hair to food, just definitely avoid it for skin!)

“Her black coils swirled around her ears in twin pigtails.”

“Her black curls tied into pigtails that flared like pom poms around her small face”

“Her black braided pigtails danced around her. The colorful beads at the tips clicked to the beat of her skips”

These examples were pretty slapped together, so perhaps you can think of some better ones!

More reading: Ways to describe hair

~Mods Colette and Alice

Commentary

kermitheechalamet said:

in high school a friend once told me that my locks reminded them of a komondor dog (those ones that kinda look like mops) and i know she meant well, but it upset me so bad to be compared to a dog. unless the person specifically welcomes it, such as in the case of fursonas, i would 100% not recommend comparison to animals even if its something you think is cute.

also “exploding poodle” is a weird and kind of horrifying thing to imagine lmao. if you want to use something specifically childlike id go with maybe clouds or dandelions or something

black hair hair Black women Black girls black children dehumanization description asks

cartoons-tothemoon asked:

(1/2) I'm playing around with making a comic about a young mad scientist botanist who fuses herself with her plants in an accident, the only thing here that's leaving me tetchy about it is that this going to turn her skin green and I've designed her to have a hooked nose -- I thought it would be cute, and it's not often seen on non-villainous characters -- but I'm worried that this might illicit some anti-semetic stereotypes? She's not Jewish, but it feels like too close a call for me to make.

(2/2) would including other characters with this feature mitigate the damage, or adding some canonically Jewish characters into the narrative help, or should I just take her back to the drawing board?

Mad scientist with hook nose turns herself green by accident

Thank you for catching yourself. The thing about That Nose, the famous nose, the nose that stares back at me both when I take glamorous selfies or look at propaganda images – is that by nature of its curve it’s supposed to somehow indicate something inhuman, something grotesque. Think of the way Halloween witch faces look. Think of goblin faces. There’s an association in Western culture that curved nose = inhuman, and the green skin thing is often included as well.

It’s not even just about antisemitism because there are other ethnicities that have similar noses, around the Mediterranean and Middle East etc. It’s about “this is grotesque because we’re white and northern European and we said so.” That’s why I’m not sure that adding canonically Jewish characters would help in this case, because it’s not just about anti-semitism this time, it’s also anti-Arab, Greek, Italian, etc. Other hook-nosed characters, however, might help. It’s tetchy though, because of how infrequently we get to see ourselves overall on non-witch, non-goblin, non-’grotesque’ faces.

Maybe when she fuses with the plants she can have little leaves growing out of her skin here and there instead of just turning green? 

–Shira

Definitely agree that there should be other hook-nosed characters. I have the Nose™, and I would love to see some non-villainous representation of it. Consider the demographic range of other characters that could potentially have the Nose™, and show them as distinct, nuanced people. Personally, I’d make sure not to emphasize her wanting to change herself to fit a beauty standard. I see people advocating for modification all the time, and it further plays into the idea that Western ideals of beauty exclude the presence of other types of facial features.

Mother Gothel from Tangled is a classic example of the trope of a villainous hook-nosed character who transforms themself in some shape or form pitted against a typical Western European heroine–think about how you write the character and understand the layers of bias that play into the scenario. Try to analyze the stereotypes you recognize in your writing and find where you can make positive change.

~ Abhaya

Jewish Jewish witch witches Jewish tropes Jewish stereotypes the nose Jewish nose noses antisemitism dehumanization eurocentric beauty standards beauty standards racism featurism asks

mudwizardbignaturals asked:

would it be bad to have an inhuman main character be jewish if i

1) have gentile/non-jewish inhumans (albeit not in the exact way as he is)

2) have jewish humans (who are unfortunately minor characters right now, or his old family members) and

3) part of the ending is him accepting that he is deserving of kindness and respect even if he isn't human any more.

he was originally human, but he was cursed by a mystical force (completely separate from any existing pantheon and NOT EVIL, just very "end justifies the means") that made him nonhuman for its own uses, but he still looks completely human and pretends to be human, mainly to protect himself.

the universe he lives in does have nonhuman populations that are technically legally protected, but in practice aren't treated well, and some of them look human like he does and some don't look human.

the main internal conflict is about him worrying about not being the person he used to be, and whether he would even want to be the person he used to be.

the main external conflict is the curse makes it harder and harder for him to recognize people and remember things (so he can suit the mythical force's needs better), so he isolates himself until his biggest fear is forgetting himself because he thinks no one cares enough to remember him.

i made him jewish because i wanted him to be from a part of new york city that has a large jewish population, particularly in the time period he's from, and i thought it would be weird if he wasn't jewish, but his judaism is not a huge part of the story and he usually only mentions it in passing because he doesn't like offering a lot of personal information.

Jewish character becomes non-human from curse

I don’t particularly have a problem with this premise because of the points in your bulleted list, so that part is good, but I do have a problem with “I thought it would be weird if he wasn’t Jewish” because of where he lives. There is no part of NYC so uniformly Jewish that having a gentile character live there would be implausible. But Meir has better words so I’m going to hand the mic off to him. Just, you’re giving yourself work (research, beta-readers etc) for what sounds like no reason, since his Judaism isn’t a big part of the story, as you mentioned, and if geography is truly the ONLY reason he’s Jewish.

Also, another reminder that, when writing marginalized ethnicities who are or become non-human, it helps fight dehumanizing white supremacist tropes when those non-human forms are more toward the lovable end of the spectrum rather than the creepy or distasteful end. (Disclaimer: if the writer is in the group in question there is a lot more leeway.)

–Shira

So for personal context, I grew up outside of New York City and a lot of my family lives or has lived in and around the city. Jewishness is a notable cultural influence in NYC but we are still barely more numerous there than in the United States at large, and at no time has there been an area of New York City where there was no one living there who wasn’t Jewish. 

My grandmother and my wife’s grandmother grew up probably blocks apart in Brooklyn,

a Jewish girl who barely took her nose out of a book and an Italian Catholic Broadway actress, who could plausibly have passed each other on the street but would be introduced for the first time only in their 80s. And okay, Brooklyn wasn’t the only incidence of Jewish concentration in NYC; you could be talking about the Lower East Side or maybe Washington Heights, but again, at no point were those neighborhoods, or any neighborhood in NYC, exclusive. There have been longstanding concentrations of Jewish settlement and there have been ones that grew and then faded as other populations shifted in, and there have been neighborhoods and times when finding a Jewish resident there would have been remarkable, but not the opposite: anywhere Jewish New Yorkers concentrated, other New Yorkers were always also there. 

You mention that you don’t want to make Jewishness a big part of the story, and you only added it because of the geography, so let’s allay that: your character doesn’t NEED to be Jewish to live in whichever place and time he’s in. 

On the other hand, if he is Jewish and living in a neighborhood dominated by its Jewish population, there is pretty much no possible way that Judaism is not a huge part of his story. 

Assuming that what you mean by that is that you intend to not portray any Jewish observances or any internal or external conflict in your character due to his Jewishness, if he’s surrounded by a lively and vibrant Jewish community and is choosing to isolate himself from them, that’s a LOT of big feelings for him to go through, and for you to have to research enough to write, just because of his address. 

This is especially at issue because of the themes of loss of identity, and the questions about whether he would even want his old identity back. Jewish disconnection from Jewish community is a complex subject layered with historical and cultural pressures both inside the narrative and outside of it as a Jewish reader, and approaching that subject without a deep and intimate cultural knowledge is likely to make for an unconvincing inner voice. On the other hand, a non-Jewish character feeling the pressures of isolation while surrounded by a strongly interconnected community he doesn’t belong to could offer you opportunities to show dimensions to his inner struggle that might really illustrate what’s going on with him. 

All this comes down to essentially the same thing Shira said: that while you haven’t trodden on any problematic tropes that I could see in the setup, you’re setting yourself up for a ton of unnecessary research based on an inaccurate assumption: realizing that your character doesn’t need to be Jewish even to live in present-day Borough Park allows you to just write this character according to your gut. Enjoy!

-Meir

Jewish Jewish man Cultural disconnect religious disconnect dehumanization New York Jewish history Jewish American asks