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Untitled
editI can't agree with the use of the Turkish name for this Syriac monastery. The Syrian Orthodox as well as the monastery itself endured various persucutions by the Turks over the years. I feel wronged when the turkish name is used instead of its original Syriac name. In order to protect and restore the cultural heritage of the Syriac Orthodox people, who are the indigenous inhabitors of the Tur Abdin region, we should use the original Syriac name which properly translated to English would be 'Monastery of St. Gabriel'. JohannesI 20:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Move
editMoving per official and most common name in English:
- Dayro d-Mor Gabriel Monastery returns 2 hits in Google [1]
- Deyrulumur Monastery returns 55 hits [2]
Therefore moving per official and most common name in English Baristarim 09:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
- Ok some google turned out 3760 "Dayro d-Mor Gabriel" vs 644 "Deyrulumur Monastery"
- Anyway this is a Syriac monastry therefore it should retain it's Syriac name. Ravi84m (talk) 02:24, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Nestorian?
editWas this monastery previously under the Nestorian/ACOE? [[3]] Chaldean 07:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
- Many of the modern Syriac Orthodox Monasteries today were once Church of the East monasteries. Its a good thing that our brothers in the Syriac Orthodox Church have taken care of these historic monasteries rather than the usual trend of turning into mosques. Malik Danno (talk) 15:02, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Requested move 17 October 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. However, I will make the page title Mar Mattai monastery uniform with regards to the capitalisation of "monastery". (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 23:25, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
- Mor Gabriel Monastery → Monastery of Saint Gabriel
- Mar Mattai monastery → Monastery of Saint Matthew
- Mar Oraha Monastery → Monastery of Saint Abraham
- Mar Behnam Monastery → Monastery of Saints Behnam and Sarah
- Monastery of Mor Augin → Monastery of Saint Augin
- Mor Hananyo Monastery → Monastery of Saint Ananias
– Few if any evaluated article names from the region retain Arabic translitterated name if English language names are available (as indicated in respective infoboxes), do they? Per WP:CONSISTENCY with Talk:Monastery of Saint Elijah and Monastery of Saint John of Dailam. The latter also per WP:CONSISTENCY with Behnam, Sarah, and the Forty Martyrs. PPEMES (talk) 08:47, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. Middle Eastern monasteries are usually referred to by these names. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:03, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. Redirect can be added. Stalin Sunny Talk2Me 06:01, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. And Monastery of Saint Elijah should be moved back. Srnec (talk) 23:22, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Contradicting source
editHey, I came across something contradicting for this part:
"The ruling held that land inside and adjacent to the monastery, which the monastery has controlled for decades and has paid taxes on, belongs to the state. On June 13, 2012, the Turkish Supreme Court of Appeals upheld this decision, which Assyrians continued to protest."
the source explicitly writes this in the lead:
"Despite the Treasury’s legal struggle to seize some of the lands of the Mor Gabriel monastery, located on the Tur Abdin plateau near Midyat in the province of Mardin in southeastern Turkey, Turkey’s Arameans (Syriacs) have been determined to fight back."
all good to correct this? change Assyrians to Arameans (Syriacs), in alignment with the source? Wlaak (talk) 00:44, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
- i know ive pinged you alot @Asilvering and im sorry for that. you gave me a warning saying before changing any race title i should take to discussion, how long should i be waiting and if ive waited when can i edit without having a answer to my discussion, please see above what i want to change Wlaak (talk) 18:43, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
- Honestly, until the broader question is resolved to some degree, I think you should avoid changing this kind of thing entirely. You know it's a contentious change, and it's not going to buy you much goodwill in this dispute. But to answer your question directly, I'd give it a week. That's the base timeline for a lot of our routine formal discussions, like WP:RM and WP:AFD. -- asilvering (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Reverts
editThere have been multiple reverts on this article; please refer to this topic for discussion. My position is that I do not find it NPOV. For one, the monastery is labeled as something other than a Syriac monastery, which goes against the majority of WP:RS on the article and raises WP:POV concerns. Labeling the genocide as something other than its article name, Sayfo, and the fact that the new label is not supported by the references is also concerning. Distorting a reference that is writing of "Syriacs" as something other than that is likewise concerning; for reference, the source states: "The Turkish state imposed its authority over the peoples living there (Kurds, Arabs, Armenians and Syriacs, along with Turks and others) and proceeded to keep the region under firm control thereafter."
One reference uses a translation by Bar Abrahem, Abdulmesih, who is very close to the topic [4], [5], [6], which raises doubts about whether WP:RS is being used.
A passage in the version renders "Syriacs" as another label, which is not supported by the reference. The passage in question is: "The Assyrians contested this decision in local courts, but their appeal was quickly rejected. The charges against the monastery spread panic in the Assyrian diaspora, prompting activists to launch the "Action Mor Gabriel" movement across European cities to highlight the plight of Assyrians in Turkey." The section under that renders "Syriacs" as another label, which again raises doubts about whether this version is in good faith and WP:NPOV.
Overall, I find it hard to see that the version follows WP:RS, WP:NPOV, and WP:OR.
Please, let me know your thoughts. DavidKaf (talk) 11:18, 17 September 2025 (UTC)