Talk:20 Exchange Place

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:41, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that fourteen "giants of finance" are mounted on 20 Exchange Place? Source: NY Times 2008
  • ALT1:... that 20 Exchange Place was the world's tallest stone-clad building until the Empire State Building opened shortly afterward? Source: (1) "N. Y. Building To Be Tallest For Month: City Bank-Farmers Trust Co. to Open New Quarters Tuesday--Structure Rises 750 Feet". Hartford Courant. February 22, 1931. p. A2 (2) "Empire State Tower, Tallest In World, Is Opened By Hoover; The Highest Structure Raised By The Hand Of Man". The New York Times. May 2, 1931
  • ALT2:... that the City Bank–Farmers Trust Building had a shooting gallery for the guards protecting the bank vault in the basement? Source: "N. Y. Building To Be Tallest For Month: City Bank-Farmers Trust Co. to Open New Quarters Tuesday--Structure Rises 750 Feet". Hartford Courant. February 22, 1931. p. A2

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/WJWL

5x expanded by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 20:38, 12 August 2020 (UTC).

• Comment The proposed DYK is misleading, as what is described is fourteen statues on the exterior of the building, on the 19th floor. Perhaps if "giants of finance" is in quotes in the DYK, as it is in the article. David notMD (talk) 14:36, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• I did that on purpose to catch the attention of the reader. In any case, I added quotes for the main hook. epicgenius (talk) 01:28, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

• I find ALT 2 the most compelling of the hooks. This review is for that Alt:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I cant view one of the sources for the hook on ProQuest, but the historic NYT one I can view and it supports the hook. Im not sure if shooting gallery should be linked in the hook, but either way it still works. All in all a nice article and an interesting note about this building's basement. Found5dollar (talk) 23:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:20 Exchange Place/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 20:08, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
• It contains copyright infringements -
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Prose

Lede

• Link skyscraper? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• Our article for Cross and Cross is stylised with an ambersand. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done Incidentally these architect articles are pretty inconsistent. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• world's tallest stone-clad building at the time of its completion. - is it not anymore? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Nope, actually the Empire State Building surpassed it a few months after. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• Can we reword to avoid sentences starting with a number? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• The main entrance, facing Exchange Place, - how can a entrance face the building? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Fixed
• granite "coins" representing the countries where City Bank Farmers Trust operated offices. - is this a quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Fixed This is not a direct quote, and they are more accurately described as seals. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• The 16th through 57th floors of the building were converted from commercial to residential space by Metro Loft Management. - when? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Added

General

• Same deal in the prose, don't start sentences with numbers. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• Is site the right heading? What about "location". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • It talks a bit about the site history as well, which is referenced below. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• Link New York Times? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• One image is on left, any reason? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Fixed
• Do we have a link for Rockwood stone? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, no. That is a red link. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• Once again, is the coins a quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Removed
• side of the arch, contain the word twenty - what's with the small caps? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Fixed
• The section "Entrances" could probably merge some paras. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• The intake pipes for the building's HVAC system - what's a HVAC? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done I explained the abbreviation. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• Could we get some alttext? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  •  Done
• e leases in lower Manhattan since - Isn't it Lower Manhattan. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • It depends upon the person, but I capitalized it for consistency. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
• Is there no more reception? Feels a bit short. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • I added a little more reception. I suppose there wasn't that much to say about a building that "almost" broke a record. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:08, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Lee Vilenski: Thanks for the review. I've responded to all your comments now. epicgenius (talk) 00:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
    • No worries, happy to promote. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:55, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

A Third of 20 Exchange Place's Units are Unaccounted For by Sources?

"Since being converted to residential use, 20 Exchange Place has contained 767 residential apartments."

20 Exchange Place's apartment conversion happened in three phases, but I think only two phases are identified in this article. In the first phase, all floors above the 16th are converted to 350 units. Then, in the mid-2010s, 221 more units are created between the 9th and 15th floors. What about the remaining 196 units of the 767 total (which, presumably, are below the 8th floor)? Part of a third phase out of nowhere that happened at the same time as the second (that would have resulted in all of the office space in 20 Exchange Place disappearing at that point, but that is beside the point)? Or are the 350 and 221 figures just miscounts by the original sources?

Your thoughts on this, EpicGenius? Jim856796 (talk) 18:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. Yes, that is correct; all of the office space was eliminated from 2014 to 2015 when the remaining 167 units were added. I have clarified this in the article more explicitly. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Elevators

I added the following to the article:

In March 2022, the New York Times reported that it was a long term, chronic problem in the building that very often, none of the elevators worked, and that none of the maintenance crew in the building, or repair people brought in from outside, were able to determine the cause of the problem. Younger, able bodied residents reported spending long periods of time walking up and down many flights of stairs, while older and disabled tenants were reported to feel trapped in their apartments.

User:Epicgenius replaced it with the following:

Starting in November 2021, the building's elevators began to break down frequently, particularly the elevators that served units above the 15th story. As a result, DTH Capital hired elevator mechanics to remain on site at all times and offered rent concessions and hotel rooms to 20 Exchange Place's residents. The New York Times reported that DTH had tried to acquire controller boards for the elevators, but the 2021–2022 global supply chain crisis had delayed the delivery of those boards. Local politicians met with 20 Exchange Place's residents in March 2022 to address the chronic elevator outages.

The New York Times article mentions that one party claims the supply chain problems are the cause. But other parties in the article cite other causes. The different parties have not reached an agreement or consensus as to what the cause it.

Also, if the cause is the supply chain problems, then why hasn't this been happening in all of the other skyscrapers in the city?

Mulva? Gipple? Dolores! (talk) 21:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

References

I think you had the right idea about adding this detail to the article. However, I think we can condense the fact that younger people had to walk many flights of stairs and that older people felt trapped. Not only is it anecdotal, but it also lacks context as to why specifically people felt that way (it's because they had to climb 15 or more stories). Additionally, as the problem has been ongoing for several months, it is important to note this context. Perhaps it can be shortened.

As to if the cause is the supply chain problems, then why hasn't this been happening in all of the other skyscrapers in the city? - It actually is, but the issues aren't happening on such a wide scale as here, and it's not elevators specifically. The Brooklyn Tower, for instance, has had issues obtaining parts for doors and finishes for the same reason. Another thing is that most residents don't live in buildings that are 20+ stories tall. It's also especially rare that all eight elevators that serve the upper floors would have issues. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Looking at the source again, I've found some further clarification on this issue:

• DTH's elevator experts were able to find a cause for the elevator problems. Namely, it was power surges.
• The root of the power surges, however, is disputed (the Times said These experts have so far been unable to determine the source of the surges). DTH's experts said Con Ed equipment was malfunctioning, but Con Ed said its equipment worked fine.
• Regarding the comment, The New York Times article mentions that one party claims the supply chain problems are the cause. But other parties in the article cite other causes. - The supply chain problems are actually not a cause at all; they are affecting the implementation of the solution. By installing new controller boards, DTH would be able to protect the elevator machinery against sudden surges, or at least reduce the negative impacts.

So it's not that the cause of the problem could not be found, since the experts already found that the cause is a power surge. It's that no one's accepting responsibility for the cause of the problem (i.e. whoever is creating the power surges). – Epicgenius (talk) 23:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)