“Are you nonbinary tme or tma?” FUCK OFFFFFFFF KILL YOURSELF I SWEAR TO GODDDD
“No it’s not a binary it has nothing to do with genitals cis people are tme, butttttt if you’re trans everyone with a vagina is tme and everyone with a penis is tma. It’s not a binary though!” IM GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOU IM NOT EVEN JOKING OH MY GOD HOW ARE YOU GONNA BE TRANS AND EXORSEXIST INTERSEXIST YOU FUCKWAD
ALSO GOD HOW MUCH DO YOU HATE INTERSEX PEOPLE????
hi the person youve been battling in the tma/tme post is being super weird about trans men . i hate these tma/tme arguments because they're reliant on the assumption that all trans men pass 100%
Yeah these arguments are dumb and this person I’m arguing with makes no sense
There isn’t even a real argument to be had because one side is just correct
I know I should probably stop but it is kinda really funny
But since they don’t have any actual argument it’s kinda a waste of time
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
I mean. I’m not completely steeped in discourse. I brought it up based on the tag in your original post “TMA/TME critical.” I thought this meant that you were critical of the framework. Anyone can use any word for bullshit. I didn’t realize that was the gripe you have originally.
Trans men don’t face transmisogyny because they aren’t women. They do obviously have to deal with transphobia, and also with (misplaced) misogyny. But a trans man does not face transmisogyny in the same way that a trans woman does.
In the former, one can deny the hate by revealing your agab. It is possible to prove everyone wrong.
In the latter, you can’t. A trans woman cannot prove her way out of transmisogyny. She can’t reveal anything to get out of it. The hate is “correctly attributed.”
None of this is to say that trans men don’t face discrimination, transphobia, and hate. Just that the specific intersectionality that applies to trans women doesn’t apply to them.
Nonbinary people also don’t face transmisogyny inherently. I’m sure that for some fem presenting nonbinary people, who could be mistaken for trans women, they face similar challenges.
(American example incoming)
Even tho Lil Uzi Vert came out as nonbinary, FOX news hasn’t decided to turn their identity into a national discussion. Dylan Mulvaney was mentioned in a speech by the president of the United States. This was because she was a trans woman who did the unspeakable thing of… being a trans woman.
It is not misplaced misogyny, people are being misogynist to trans men because they are trans and the person views them as a women (because they have a vagina). “Revealing their agab” (genitalia), would not dissuade people from being transmisogynist to them, but rather it would be reinforced upon prove that, to them, they were being misogynist to a woman. (Not to mention you’re saying they should just detransition)
They are being misogynist to someone because they have a vagina, that is not misplaced.
Nonbinary people face transmisogyny because they either have a penis and face it because of being trans and moving away from being a cis man, or because they have a vagina and are trans.
None of this is misplaced, every trans person is judged for 1. Being trans and 2. Either moving away from manhood or having a vagina,
Hence, transmisogyny.
I never said anyone should detransition. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Misogyny is prejudice/hate towards women. A trans man is not a woman. Therefore the misogyny is misplaced. People can still be misogynistic to him of course, just like how people can be misogynistic to a cis man. In both instances, however, it is an incorrect assertion.
This isn’t abt genitals. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up.
Transmisogyny is not the summation of transphobia and misogyny, it is the intersection between them.
Trans men *do* intersect between transphobia and misogyny. It does not matter that a trans man is a man, as transphobes do not see trans men as men.
They are purposely being transphobic and misogynistic to trans men, it is not misplaced because IN THE EYES OF A TRANSPHOBE, trans men are women.
None of it is misplaced, they see a trans man, and act transphobic and misogynistic to him, causing those to intersect.
Imagine there is a cis man who is more feminine, has gynecomastia, or for some other reason is mistaken by a transphobe as a trans man or trans woman. That transphobe can say all the hate directed at trans people towards with cis guy… but ultimately, he is not a systemic victim of transphobia, or misogyny.
The same goes for a cis women of course.
In these instances, the cis man would not be affected by transphobia, or misogyny. And the cis women would be affected by misogyny, but not transphobia. If we agree on that. How is it hard to conceptualize the fact that a trans man cannot be a victim of transmisogyny? Unless you want to disregard his identity.
Because a transphobe (the person who would express feelings of transmisogyny) disregards a trans man’s identity, because, say it with me folks, TRANSPHOBES ARE TRANSPHOBIC!
THEY DO NOT SEE TRANS MEN AS MEN!!
Like all things, the context makes everything, and within any context of trans men facing transmisogyny, THEY ARE BEING VIEWED AS WOMEN!!
Transphobes do not recognize trans people as real.
I feel like you kinda didn’t even read what I wrote.
Obviously transphobes are transphobic; no one is questioning you on that front.
Context is not the all important thing. Sometimes identities and systemic issues are more important that the context of a particular issue.
If a cis woman is called a tranny and stopped from going into a women’s space. Is she facing transmisogyny? Yes. But it is misattributed.
She fundamentally is oppressed via the patriarchy through misogyny. She is not systemically a victim of transmisogyny.
Either you don’t understand that different intersections of marginalized identities can have niche types of societal oppression, or you are willing disregarding everything I am saying.
To reiterate: I did not tell anyone to detransition. I know that trans men are oppressed and are victims of transphobia. I also don’t think anyone should have to show their genitalia, or disclose it. I am not trying to erase Non Binary people’s identities.
Hilarious, you even admit cis women face trans misogyny, it literally does not fucking matter if it’s “misattributed”, the oppression still happened
Oppression does not exist in instances. It is based on systemic ideas and continual patterns of abuse/dismissal/scapegoating/hate/violence ect…
When I was young, people thought I was a different ethnicity because I just kinda looked that way. I was treated with racism- which did not apply to me whatsoever. I was not oppressed. That was not oppression.
“Opression does not exist in instances” twin😭
Your analogies don’t make sense twin you keep brining up race but it has nothing to do with what you’re arguing🫧🐠
Since trans men are trans, nothing is misplaced
This is not the same as being recognized for a different race.
People are not transmisogynistic to trans men because they think they’re trans women, get over yourself.
(Anyway this debate is going nowhere so maybe we should call it?)
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
I mean. I’m not completely steeped in discourse. I brought it up based on the tag in your original post “TMA/TME critical.” I thought this meant that you were critical of the framework. Anyone can use any word for bullshit. I didn’t realize that was the gripe you have originally.
Trans men don’t face transmisogyny because they aren’t women. They do obviously have to deal with transphobia, and also with (misplaced) misogyny. But a trans man does not face transmisogyny in the same way that a trans woman does.
In the former, one can deny the hate by revealing your agab. It is possible to prove everyone wrong.
In the latter, you can’t. A trans woman cannot prove her way out of transmisogyny. She can’t reveal anything to get out of it. The hate is “correctly attributed.”
None of this is to say that trans men don’t face discrimination, transphobia, and hate. Just that the specific intersectionality that applies to trans women doesn’t apply to them.
Nonbinary people also don’t face transmisogyny inherently. I’m sure that for some fem presenting nonbinary people, who could be mistaken for trans women, they face similar challenges.
(American example incoming)
Even tho Lil Uzi Vert came out as nonbinary, FOX news hasn’t decided to turn their identity into a national discussion. Dylan Mulvaney was mentioned in a speech by the president of the United States. This was because she was a trans woman who did the unspeakable thing of… being a trans woman.
It is not misplaced misogyny, people are being misogynist to trans men because they are trans and the person views them as a women (because they have a vagina). “Revealing their agab” (genitalia), would not dissuade people from being transmisogynist to them, but rather it would be reinforced upon prove that, to them, they were being misogynist to a woman. (Not to mention you’re saying they should just detransition)
They are being misogynist to someone because they have a vagina, that is not misplaced.
Nonbinary people face transmisogyny because they either have a penis and face it because of being trans and moving away from being a cis man, or because they have a vagina and are trans.
None of this is misplaced, every trans person is judged for 1. Being trans and 2. Either moving away from manhood or having a vagina,
Hence, transmisogyny.
I never said anyone should detransition. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Misogyny is prejudice/hate towards women. A trans man is not a woman. Therefore the misogyny is misplaced. People can still be misogynistic to him of course, just like how people can be misogynistic to a cis man. In both instances, however, it is an incorrect assertion.
This isn’t abt genitals. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up.
Transmisogyny is not the summation of transphobia and misogyny, it is the intersection between them.
Trans men *do* intersect between transphobia and misogyny. It does not matter that a trans man is a man, as transphobes do not see trans men as men.
They are purposely being transphobic and misogynistic to trans men, it is not misplaced because IN THE EYES OF A TRANSPHOBE, trans men are women.
None of it is misplaced, they see a trans man, and act transphobic and misogynistic to him, causing those to intersect.
Imagine there is a cis man who is more feminine, has gynecomastia, or for some other reason is mistaken by a transphobe as a trans man or trans woman. That transphobe can say all the hate directed at trans people towards with cis guy… but ultimately, he is not a systemic victim of transphobia, or misogyny.
The same goes for a cis women of course.
In these instances, the cis man would not be affected by transphobia, or misogyny. And the cis women would be affected by misogyny, but not transphobia. If we agree on that. How is it hard to conceptualize the fact that a trans man cannot be a victim of transmisogyny? Unless you want to disregard his identity.
Because a transphobe (the person who would express feelings of transmisogyny) disregards a trans man’s identity, because, say it with me folks, TRANSPHOBES ARE TRANSPHOBIC!
THEY DO NOT SEE TRANS MEN AS MEN!!
Like all things, the context makes everything, and within any context of trans men facing transmisogyny, THEY ARE BEING VIEWED AS WOMEN!!
Transphobes do not recognize trans people as real.
I feel like you kinda didn’t even read what I wrote.
Obviously transphobes are transphobic; no one is questioning you on that front.
Context is not the all important thing. Sometimes identities and systemic issues are more important that the context of a particular issue.
If a cis woman is called a tranny and stopped from going into a women’s space. Is she facing transmisogyny? Yes. But it is misattributed.
She fundamentally is oppressed via the patriarchy through misogyny. She is not systemically a victim of transmisogyny.
Either you don’t understand that different intersections of marginalized identities can have niche types of societal oppression, or you are willing disregarding everything I am saying.
To reiterate: I did not tell anyone to detransition. I know that trans men are oppressed and are victims of transphobia. I also don’t think anyone should have to show their genitalia, or disclose it. I am not trying to erase Non Binary people’s identities.
I was responding to your last two sentences about if trans men faced transmisogyny.
No one is arguing about cis women facing transmisogyny, we’re arguing about trans men.
And as I’ve said before, trans men face transmisogyny because they face both transphobia and misogyny. You’re analogy of a cis woman being called transphobic things doesn’t work because unlike cis people, trans men are trans.
I get what you’re saying, but you continue to say trans men don’t experience transmisogyny, which is untrue.
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
I mean. I’m not completely steeped in discourse. I brought it up based on the tag in your original post “TMA/TME critical.” I thought this meant that you were critical of the framework. Anyone can use any word for bullshit. I didn’t realize that was the gripe you have originally.
Trans men don’t face transmisogyny because they aren’t women. They do obviously have to deal with transphobia, and also with (misplaced) misogyny. But a trans man does not face transmisogyny in the same way that a trans woman does.
In the former, one can deny the hate by revealing your agab. It is possible to prove everyone wrong.
In the latter, you can’t. A trans woman cannot prove her way out of transmisogyny. She can’t reveal anything to get out of it. The hate is “correctly attributed.”
None of this is to say that trans men don’t face discrimination, transphobia, and hate. Just that the specific intersectionality that applies to trans women doesn’t apply to them.
Nonbinary people also don’t face transmisogyny inherently. I’m sure that for some fem presenting nonbinary people, who could be mistaken for trans women, they face similar challenges.
(American example incoming)
Even tho Lil Uzi Vert came out as nonbinary, FOX news hasn’t decided to turn their identity into a national discussion. Dylan Mulvaney was mentioned in a speech by the president of the United States. This was because she was a trans woman who did the unspeakable thing of… being a trans woman.
It is not misplaced misogyny, people are being misogynist to trans men because they are trans and the person views them as a women (because they have a vagina). “Revealing their agab” (genitalia), would not dissuade people from being transmisogynist to them, but rather it would be reinforced upon prove that, to them, they were being misogynist to a woman. (Not to mention you’re saying they should just detransition)
They are being misogynist to someone because they have a vagina, that is not misplaced.
Nonbinary people face transmisogyny because they either have a penis and face it because of being trans and moving away from being a cis man, or because they have a vagina and are trans.
None of this is misplaced, every trans person is judged for 1. Being trans and 2. Either moving away from manhood or having a vagina,
Hence, transmisogyny.
I never said anyone should detransition. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Misogyny is prejudice/hate towards women. A trans man is not a woman. Therefore the misogyny is misplaced. People can still be misogynistic to him of course, just like how people can be misogynistic to a cis man. In both instances, however, it is an incorrect assertion.
This isn’t abt genitals. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up.
Transmisogyny is not the summation of transphobia and misogyny, it is the intersection between them.
Trans men *do* intersect between transphobia and misogyny. It does not matter that a trans man is a man, as transphobes do not see trans men as men.
They are purposely being transphobic and misogynistic to trans men, it is not misplaced because IN THE EYES OF A TRANSPHOBE, trans men are women.
None of it is misplaced, they see a trans man, and act transphobic and misogynistic to him, causing those to intersect.
Imagine there is a cis man who is more feminine, has gynecomastia, or for some other reason is mistaken by a transphobe as a trans man or trans woman. That transphobe can say all the hate directed at trans people towards with cis guy… but ultimately, he is not a systemic victim of transphobia, or misogyny.
The same goes for a cis women of course.
In these instances, the cis man would not be affected by transphobia, or misogyny. And the cis women would be affected by misogyny, but not transphobia. If we agree on that. How is it hard to conceptualize the fact that a trans man cannot be a victim of transmisogyny? Unless you want to disregard his identity.
Because a transphobe (the person who would express feelings of transmisogyny) disregards a trans man’s identity, because, say it with me folks, TRANSPHOBES ARE TRANSPHOBIC!
THEY DO NOT SEE TRANS MEN AS MEN!!
Like all things, the context makes everything, and within any context of trans men facing transmisogyny, THEY ARE BEING VIEWED AS WOMEN!!
Transphobes do not recognize trans people as real.
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
nope transmascs just assume that posts about TME ppl are about them because they love assuming that trans women hate them
literally every single post about TME people that i've seen is also applicable to cis women/cis men (since cis men are also TME, TMA/TME isn't about genitalia, btw)
it is about genitalia if you’re trans, however.
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
I mean. I’m not completely steeped in discourse. I brought it up based on the tag in your original post “TMA/TME critical.” I thought this meant that you were critical of the framework. Anyone can use any word for bullshit. I didn’t realize that was the gripe you have originally.
Trans men don’t face transmisogyny because they aren’t women. They do obviously have to deal with transphobia, and also with (misplaced) misogyny. But a trans man does not face transmisogyny in the same way that a trans woman does.
In the former, one can deny the hate by revealing your agab. It is possible to prove everyone wrong.
In the latter, you can’t. A trans woman cannot prove her way out of transmisogyny. She can’t reveal anything to get out of it. The hate is “correctly attributed.”
None of this is to say that trans men don’t face discrimination, transphobia, and hate. Just that the specific intersectionality that applies to trans women doesn’t apply to them.
Nonbinary people also don’t face transmisogyny inherently. I’m sure that for some fem presenting nonbinary people, who could be mistaken for trans women, they face similar challenges.
(American example incoming)
Even tho Lil Uzi Vert came out as nonbinary, FOX news hasn’t decided to turn their identity into a national discussion. Dylan Mulvaney was mentioned in a speech by the president of the United States. This was because she was a trans woman who did the unspeakable thing of… being a trans woman.
It is not misplaced misogyny, people are being misogynist to trans men because they are trans and the person views them as a women (because they have a vagina). “Revealing their agab” (genitalia), would not dissuade people from being transmisogynist to them, but rather it would be reinforced upon prove that, to them, they were being misogynist to a woman. (Not to mention you’re saying they should just detransition)
They are being misogynist to someone because they have a vagina, that is not misplaced.
Nonbinary people face transmisogyny because they either have a penis and face it because of being trans and moving away from being a cis man, or because they have a vagina and are trans.
None of this is misplaced, every trans person is judged for 1. Being trans and 2. Either moving away from manhood or having a vagina,
Hence, transmisogyny.
I never said anyone should detransition. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Misogyny is prejudice/hate towards women. A trans man is not a woman. Therefore the misogyny is misplaced. People can still be misogynistic to him of course, just like how people can be misogynistic to a cis man. In both instances, however, it is an incorrect assertion.
This isn’t abt genitals. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up.
Transmisogyny is not the summation of transphobia and misogyny, it is the intersection between them.
Trans men *do* intersect between transphobia and misogyny. It does not matter that a trans man is a man, as transphobes do not see trans men as men.
They are purposely being transphobic and misogynistic to trans men, it is not misplaced because IN THE EYES OF A TRANSPHOBE, trans men are women.
None of it is misplaced, they see a trans man, and act transphobic and misogynistic to him, causing those to intersect.
Also, don’t try to backpedal. Implying that being able to reveal your genitalia (not using agab because that’s not what it means and I’m not intersexist) is a benefit in order to stop transmisogyny would imply a detransition because only a transphobe would be attacking a trans man and revealing the birth genitalia would only *help* the transphobe in their beliefs.
After all context is everything and not thing exists in a vacuum.
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
I mean. I’m not completely steeped in discourse. I brought it up based on the tag in your original post “TMA/TME critical.” I thought this meant that you were critical of the framework. Anyone can use any word for bullshit. I didn’t realize that was the gripe you have originally.
Trans men don’t face transmisogyny because they aren’t women. They do obviously have to deal with transphobia, and also with (misplaced) misogyny. But a trans man does not face transmisogyny in the same way that a trans woman does.
In the former, one can deny the hate by revealing your agab. It is possible to prove everyone wrong.
In the latter, you can’t. A trans woman cannot prove her way out of transmisogyny. She can’t reveal anything to get out of it. The hate is “correctly attributed.”
None of this is to say that trans men don’t face discrimination, transphobia, and hate. Just that the specific intersectionality that applies to trans women doesn’t apply to them.
Nonbinary people also don’t face transmisogyny inherently. I’m sure that for some fem presenting nonbinary people, who could be mistaken for trans women, they face similar challenges.
(American example incoming)
Even tho Lil Uzi Vert came out as nonbinary, FOX news hasn’t decided to turn their identity into a national discussion. Dylan Mulvaney was mentioned in a speech by the president of the United States. This was because she was a trans woman who did the unspeakable thing of… being a trans woman.
It is not misplaced misogyny, people are being misogynist to trans men because they are trans and the person views them as a women (because they have a vagina). “Revealing their agab” (genitalia), would not dissuade people from being transmisogynist to them, but rather it would be reinforced upon prove that, to them, they were being misogynist to a woman. (Not to mention you’re saying they should just detransition)
They are being misogynist to someone because they have a vagina, that is not misplaced.
Nonbinary people face transmisogyny because they either have a penis and face it because of being trans and moving away from being a cis man, or because they have a vagina and are trans.
None of this is misplaced, every trans person is judged for 1. Being trans and 2. Either moving away from manhood or having a vagina,
Hence, transmisogyny.
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
You’ve said that “any trans person” as well as “GNC and Intersex cis people” face transmisogyny.
That’s called transphobia. Thats not transmisogyny.
The type of hate being thrown around, while anyone can be targeted, does not actually implicate anyone other than the group it targets. If someone were to call me a slur for an ethnicity I was not, they are being racist, but not racist to me, as I am not part of that group. They are simply being hateful to me generally, and specifically racist to that group. This applies even if they think I am part of that group, even though I am not.
Anyone in the world can face transmisogyny in the sense that someone can string together insults for trans women, treat them like a trans woman, and act as if they are.
The cis woman with “manly” build can be treated like a trans woman. harassed, objectified, asked to send medical records to the public, sent death threats, called a sex pest, degenerate ect…- all of which can happen to anyone, but are specifically levied against trans women.
We can agree that the treatment is horrible, and that no one deserves it, but fundamentally, the hate is being incorrectly directed. No matter how much people think she is trans and hate her like it, she is not a person who legitimately faces transmisogyny.
(I specifically didn’t speak on Intersex issues because even though I technically have a minor intersex condition, I don’t have the life experience or knowledge of many other intersex ppl.)
As for TME/TMA being tied to genitalia within the lexicon. That sucks. I didn’t know people were using it like that. I always assumed that people who used the term understood the expansive classification of TME as a term and not just a way to put down anyone assigned “vagina.” If it is being used against anyone like that I’m incredible disgusted by how easily a term can get co-opted.
You’re right, most cis people do not experience transmisogyny, I was wrong on that part, but every trans person does.
Trans women are obviously hated for being trans and a woman (transmisogyny)
Trans men are hated because they are trans and are viewed as women anyway (transmisogyny)
Enbans face either mentioned reason based on how others view them (also transmisogyny)
Also, if you really didn’t know how tme/tma was used, why did you try to tell me I was wrong?
But W rhetoric anyways this is fun :) (/gen)
Romance and sex might be the most overhyped things in the world.
Like I’m not repulsed by them but like, it’s so mediocre. 6/10
Romantic love is like a made up feeling like what’s the difference between it and friendship?
Sex feels fine but I’m expected to be the dominant MAN and that takes any enjoyment away tbh.
Idk whole thing is ok but it’s never been as wonderful as people claim it is.
Like people act like they’re dying over the need for dating and it’s like… just don’t date?
It doesn’t help anytime I say something like this the people around me are like “ohhh you GOTTA be gay!!” “you’re so weird bro you’re just doing it wrong!” Like stfu
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)
An individual can have any genitalia and be either TMA or TME. Binary trans, nonbinary, intersex, cis.
I don’t think anyone should have to divulge any genitalia details, either past or present, or to put TME/TMA in their bio.
If you were to reclassify ppl with this system, would you put all cis people in TME, and all non cis ppl in TMA?
No, because while every trans person faces transmisogyny, so do GNC and intersex cis people also face transmisogyny. The TME/TMA labels are dumb, wrong, and unnecessary all around.
Also, tme/tma *is* tied to genitalia, because the only people that use it have it tied to genitalia in their usage, no matter the intention of the terms originally. The meaning of something is tied to its use, and tme/tma is used as “are you trans with a penis or vagina”.
we need to stop trying to debate with trf’s about if trans men are oppressed or if enbies are real.
They know damn well trans men are oppressed, they don’t care.
They want trans men to detransition because they are angry at them for “betraying their womanhood”.
TRF rhetoric comes from projection about their own insecurities. They side themselves with TERFs who will never see them as women, and because of that they attack any person born with a uterus who would wish to transition.
They are angry because they fear they will never be seen as a real woman by the people they surround themselves with, so they lash out when they see someone “reject their womanhood” and transition.
Non TRF trans women, speak out for your trans men friends, we’re all in this together.
(Tagging this transmisogyny because people are *misogynistic* to *trans* men)
you do not get to know what my genitals are, stop inventing new ways to ask.
TME/TMA as a framework is not tied to genitalia. There are other critiques once can have of TME/TMA, but I think that labeling it as “which genitals do you have” is an incorrect assertion.
Unfortunately, you think wrong.
When TME/TMA is used it is used to mean “tma is trans women (born with penis) and tme is trans men (born with vagina)”*
It is, inherently, about genitals.
Thus, attempting to determine if a nonbinary person is tme/tma is an attempt to determine the genitals that enby was born with.
Alas, my assertion was, in fact, correct.
*(the whole thing is wrong as any trans person is affected by transmisogyny)