And what about the question of duty x love? I feel like Rhaegar in the play didn't have to make any big, important decisions... Everything was kind of "given" to him...
Things just sort of happened to him, it removed the need for him to make any difficult choice between them. The events just keep carrying him forward while he sits in the passenger seat. He doesn’t actively choose love over duty (because the prophecy is what drives him to connect with Lyanna in the first place, the two are so tangled together that you can’t separate them. If she hadn’t talked to him about dreams and whatnot and seeing stuff too, would they even fall in love with one another? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Anyways), or prophecy over love (Lyanna is the one to cling to that, not Rhaegar, he just wants to live with his head on the clouds), or even the realm over his own happiness (Elia is the political mastermind and Rhaegar needs to be forced to actively do something to stop the realm from tearing itself apart). He’s mostly passive while things happen to him. The story is so reluctant to let him possess enough agency to be truly responsible for anything, and I don’t think this was a very good choice. He could still be compelling, a doomed tragic “romantic hero” even if you allowed him so gray areas (granted, it is hard to overcome certain things about his character, especially where Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon are concerned, but my point is that some people will look beyond it and some won’t and I think the public should be allowed to decide. It felt like they didn’t trust the audience to do that imo).
I disliked this whole beat here, I disliked it a lot. The way this dialogue feels like one of the many choices made by the play in an attempt to absolve Rhaegar. Very convenient.
It’s the same reason Lyanna is made the one obsessed with prophecy and choosing to stay at the Tower. Every potentially selfish or cruel choice Rhaegar made, even if not intentionally so, is either reassigned to one of the women around him or stripped of any major emotional fallout . Elia releases him from emotional responsibility because she didn’t even love him so he wasn’t breaking her heart, Lyanna drives the prophecy when he was content in just being happy with her, and Rhaegar is left as this passive, melancholic man being carried along. At some point, you have to let the grown prince possess an agenda of his own.
He could have an affectionate relationship with Elia even if devoid of romantic love. She was allowed to feel hurt even if she didn’t love him. He could be a love struck prince and still act on behalf of the prophecy. He could actually use the prophecy as justification for his love. Lyanna could have gone willingly with him and still feel some type of way about being hidden in a tower while her brother and father died.
All around, I really dislike some of the choices made for these three, especially for Elia and Lyanna. Like I said before, it feels immensely as if it was made for his benefit and not theirs.
Jaime and Brienne family tree in-game (they were married here already; that's why she's Lady of the Westerlands. The Big Sapphire was a nickname Jaime gave her, I forgot the reason why, but it was affectionate. I also took this screenshot before Jaime got his title of "lionslayer". Yes, he killed a lion during a hunt lol). Look, she has a Lannett ancestor! Maybe that's why at some point the High Septon accused their marriage of being incestuos and demanded Jaime annulled it LMAO (even though they had three children already by that point). Jaime obviously refused and the claims were proven to be false.
We speculate a lot about how Jaime is going to react to Brienne’s betrayal, and obviously I get why because that is going to hurt him like hell. He put his life on the line for her many times, trusted her, gave her Oathkeeper, sent her out to fulfill the vow they made together, and then dropped everything and followed her the second she came asking for his help. Finding out that she lied and deliberately led him into a trap after all of that is going to be devastating, regardless if she has a plan or not.
But idk, I wonder about Brienne’s side of this too and I think this is something we don’t talk about enough. How exactly is she going to react if she cannot save everyone? She is being forced to choose between people she loves, and whatever she chooses, someone might die because of it.
And especially if Podrick dies anyway…how far does that spiral go?
Because no matter how much Brienne believes Jaime has changed, which she very clearly does, and no matter how strong her feelings are for him, when she was forced to choose, she valued Podrick’s life above Jaime’s. She was willing to betray Jaime and lead him to Stoneheart to save Pod, or at least put Jaime in harm’s way in the attempt of saving Pod. So what happens to her if Pod dies despite that?
And with George saying that several characters are going to go to very dark places in Winds, I do wonder if some of Brienne’s darkest thoughts might be about Jaime too. Grief is not exactly reasonable. Even if she knows the Red Wedding is not his fault, and that he has sent her out there to fulfill their vow and protect Sansa, he did push Bran out of that window. She might learn that he threatened Edmure’s baby with the trebuchet and she doesn’t know the context to that. How is that going to affect her, when she took up his sword and went on this quest for his honor as much as her own, lost almost everything along the way, and now Podrick is dead too?
Could she look at Jaime, alive because of the choice she made, and think that Pod is dead because she chose him in the end? Because she tried to save his life?
And idk, I actually want them to confront that. I don’t want the aftermath to be only about Jaime being hurt by her betrayal while Brienne feels horribly guilty for what she did to him. Jaime has every right to feel betrayed, obviously, but Brienne might come out of this carrying some very real anger and resentment of her own. Maybe some of it would be unfair, but some of it really wouldn’t be. She has lost so much trying to complete the quest he gave her and trying to uphold his honor too. And as she has said before, she doesn’t know how to trust anymore. She will be even less inclined to do so in the aftermath of Stoneheart.
I want Jaime to have to face that, just as much as I want Brienne to face what her betrayal did to him. Let them both be angry and hurt and resentful before they manage to find their way back to each other.
Brienne of Tarth
What Jaime got afraid of in the end of his dream after leaving Harrenhal? His death? Losing his honour? Inability to stay with Brienne and help her? Inability to help Brienne because of his death? Or something else? And if he was afraid of death, why he decided to get back? And to jump into the bear pit?
I think mostly he’s afraid of becoming the man he is at the end of the dream who in his final minutes is paralysed by the shame of what he’s done and what he’s failed to do, and it provokes a realisation that he has kind of already become that man. he has treated so much with resignation, and was even on the brink of doing so w Brienne bc even though he’s clearly upset about what might be happening to her, for a minute he almost believes there’s nothing he can do. and yeah the dream just wakes him up to the fact that there’s always something you can do, and Jaime decides he’s willing to die for that alone ig. like I always think it’s worth stressing that when he throws himself in the bearpit, he doesn’t actually know how he’s gonna get them out. man is throwing sand n shit at the bear. so i don’t think Jaime is lying that he’s ‘unafraid of death’ (or at least he’s willing to face it head on), but he’s no longer willing to live so passively that his eventual death is ultimately the pointless of a passive life??
ofc his feelings for Brienne are not NOT a factor, but it’s worth noting at this point that Jaime still believes himself in love with Cersei and is pretending to hate Brienne, so I think the dream also just allows Jaime a kind of honesty w himself that he doesn’t usually pause for. he never says it, but he finally faces the danger that Brienne actually in, faces his fear of what could happen to her, stops short of confronting why the idea of anything happens to BRIENNE bothers him so deeply, and then the only thing to do is to act.
the way that jaime and brienne are created to be unobtainable to each other is so damned delicious
brienne is the embodiment of virtue. so naturally she thinks jaime is an utter reprobate. irredeemable. and if she didn’t already know more of jaime’s crimes than anyone else on earth, he makes sure she knows the ones no one else ever pinned on him, like rossart. but the thing is, he longs to be considered just. he is dying to be thought honorable.
it rarely comes up in his chapters, but everyone else in the universe knows that he could have basically any woman he wanted. the only time you hear him even vaguely imply it is with catelyn, but it’s a known thing. then he encounters brienne. and she sits there, judging him, obviously wishing she had an excuse to kill him herself. she is not playing hard to get, she actually is impossible for him to get. how could this honorless criminal hope to tempt her? she is beyond his reach.
then you have jaime. a legendary beauty. born the heir to a great house, the most powerful house. he is considered the greatest swordsman in the land. and to top it all off, he’s not only a member of the kingsguard but is the lord commander. he’s both what brienne wants to be and what she wants to fuck.
and he immediately confirms for brienne that he thinks what everyone thinks: she’s ugly. she’s a woman in breeches who fights like a knight, which is grounds for more than half the people she meets to disdain her. and the things that might make her an attractive mate to some men are meaningless to jaime—her inheritance is inconsequential to him, he gave away more power than her lesser house would ever possess. he’s completely out of her league.
so what happens when you tell someone that something’s off-limits? when you say: “them? you can never have them.”
@dreadwulf I couldn't reblog without these tags
"I shall go on this sole condition that Lyanna and our child are safe. Arthur and Oswell will remain by her side. As shall their Lord Commander. There are lives here more worthy of protection than mine own. Even that of the King. My friends, swear upon your swords, guard these lives with your own. Let no one reach that tower. This is my condition. Without it I shall not accept" No Targaryen in that whole damn dynasty has ever been this much of a bum, a deadbeat, dumbass, and a manchild all at once.
you can’t make it up
ppl say Jaime Lannister dgaf about his kids but let’s be clear. Jaime has spent more time worrying about his children who don’t even know he’s their father than Rhaegar does about Rhaenys and Aegon at any point in this play
