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Hyperfixated on a 40 year old book... again.

@thecatspirits

|| Koda || They/Them || Nonbinary AroAce ||

The turtle couldn't help us... 🐢

...he was too busy choking on a few galaxies.

Kia ora! My name is Koda (they/them) and welcome to my very inconsistent main blog. This was my IT blog, but it has since devolved into me reblogging and posting whatever I want lmao.

  • My askbox is open, but this blog isn't really meant for that obviously. You are also free to dm me on this account, but I'm not super keen on talking to people outside of reblogs, comments and asks.
  • The dividers in this post are created by @uzmacchiato :)

Feel free to check out my side blog, which may or may not be very active, but is where I intend to post more niche stuff about my hyperfixations.

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This song has been blowing up on TikTok, and I think Perfect System by Oingo Boingo (especially 2:43-3:18) reminds me of this fic! Also, would it be okay to make some ocs? I rediscovered new Steorra and I'm falling in love with it again.

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This is...shockingly appropriate.

(also yes absolutely make ocs and please share them with me i would LOVE THAT)

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OMG AN OINGO BOINGO SONG IS BLOWING UP ON TIK TOK AND IT'S NOT FROM THE DEAD MAN'S PARTY ALBUM?! This is amazing. Can't believe both my niches are colliding like this too lmao.

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‘I would never ship kaspbrough because they would be toxic for one another’ true, but that is because Eddie would be toxic with every single person ever, so by your logic you shouldn’t ship Reddie because they 100% would end up being toxic.

Before Eddie can have any sort of healthy relationship, he would need A LOT of therapy.

I’ve never said that kaspbrough was an healthy dynamic and if you think otherwise, you are wrong, because if ever believe that is healthy for one person to idolize the other to the point they see them as the human they aspire to be and at the same time being completely dependent to the other to the point they cannot imagine a life without them and would be ready to give their life for them, then YOU need a trip to the therapist.

Both had very traumatic childhood: Bill was emotionally neglected by his parents and made out to think that it was all his fault that his brother died resulting in him seeing himself no longer as a normal kid, but as someone that should take responsibility over others and basically ‘take care’ of them while also struggling with very low self esteem to the point he often had suicidal ideations, while Eddie was stuck in an emotional incestual relationship with his mother who manipulated him to the point that he could not see himself being able to live on his own without being cared by someone else. And both never saw a therapist in their life.

If that isn’t the ‘perfect’ combo for a toxic relationship, I don’t know what it is.

But at the same time a relationship between Richie and Eddie would be such as toxic because Eddie would still need to be ‘taken care of’ and I don’t believe that Richie would ever want to feel that role in the same way Bill does, because he is a normal person who wouldn’t want to lose his own autonomy just to fulfill Eddie’s dream. Richie is the most independent person ever to the point he doesn’t even believe in marriage, the last thing that man would want to end up in is a codependent relationship. And if you think that ‘he would change him’, you have no idea how a personality disorder works.

Going back to Eddie and Bill, I really don’t get why their relationship is so demonized by the fandom when Billverly is so popular when it is just as toxic: Beverly said it herself that she liked Bill because how much he remained her of her abusive father, but you will never see someone talking about it. The toxicity in straight relationships is way more normalized than in with the queer ones and that is the proof.

And since when we should stop shipping characters just because they are toxic for one another? Shipping is just a way to interpret a preexisting relationship between two characters as romantic when it may not be in canon. Before someone misunderstands me, I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS, I’m fully against that, but toxic isn’t the same as abusive. With shipping you are necessary not romanticizing a dynamic, it’s up to you do decide if it is healthy or not.

Agreed.

I think Eddie and Bev in particular, in a romantic context, would have a particularly toxic relationship with Bill.

Eddie and Bev in the book both have toxic relationships with their parental figures, which lead to them looking to Bill in order to fill the role of a stable and positive role-model figure in their lives. This is showcased by both these excerpts:

"He [Eddie] loved Bill like he would've loved a big brother... or a father." - Page 272 in Chapter 7 of IT (Stephen King, 1986)

"He [Alvin Marsh, Bev's Father] had loved her, and in some ways she supposed that had everything to do with why she had fallen so desperately in love with Bill Denbrough that long summer of 1958 - because of all the boys, Bill was the one who projected the sense of authority she associated with her father... but it was a different sort of authority, somehow - it was authority that listened." - Page 527 in Chapter 11 of IT (Stephen King, 1986)

We know that Eddie and Bev both ended up in toxic relationships which heavily mirrored their relationships with their parents, Eddie with Myra and Bev with Tom. Had either Eddie or Bev been in a long-term romantic relationship with Bill, Bill's desire to be a caretaker to the point of his own detriment in order to try and be there for someone in the way he feels he couldn't for Georgie would take over. In the case of Eddie and Bill, they would enable each other in a similar way to how Eddie and Myra enable each other, and they'd, as you said, end up in a very toxic and co-dependent relationship. I think the difference with Eddie and Bill versus Eddie and Myra is that it would actually be possible for Bill and Eddie to overcome this.

On the topic of the fandom, though, I had no idea that Kaspbrough as a ship was demonized at all beyond the occasional reddie shipper taking things too far (I've never seen this myself, but I imagine it's happened). I suppose that might be because I am a reddie shipper myself and I also don't ship Bill with anyone because, for some reason I don't understand, I always make him aroace in my own personal AU and rewrite ideas. The idea, though, that anyone would think that one ship could be less or more toxic than another in the context of the Losers Club is laughable to me because literally all 7 of them are traumatized and have their own different issues they need to overcome. Any of the many pairings you could come up with is going to realistically have issues.

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I feel like us as a fandom forget way to easily that Richie in the book as a kid is shown to be quite a devoted catholic, just saying.

Once he even recited a hole paragraph from the Bible to Bill to try to cheer him up lol. And let’s not forget when he talked about how he would never eat meat on Friday because he doesn’t want to ‘take a chance’ to go to hell.

Adding a little religious guilt wouldn’t CERTAINLY be suck an interesting dynamic for any fanfic. 👀

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I was rereading some parts of the book for my Richie and Eddie’s relationship analysis (it will come soon I promise) and I couldn’t help, but noticing how one sided Eddie and Richie relationship is.

Not only if you see it as romantic, but even as friends. Richie would do ANYTHING for Eddie while Eddie barely considered him at all. He’s not only kinda rude with him (most of the times, Richie deserves it) but he completely ignores him.

Eddie is my favorite character, but I have to say it: he was an awful friend to Richie, you deserve a better friend than him.

I would actually hard disagree with this take.

That was actually something I noticed during my first time reading IT and during my subsequent re-reads (including my current one) is that the amount of times Eddie thinks of Richie in his internal dialogue is crazy lmao. I should go through the book and actually look at the amount of times Eddie thinks about Richie compared to the other Losers.

Meanwhile, Richie is over here remembering all of the Losers after Mike calls him EXCEPT for Eddie. I cracked up at that.

In any case, I'm actually interested to see if I'm going crazy or not, so I'll go through the book tomorrow to see if I'm correct about what I'm saying here. It could be that I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Guess we'll see.

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It fans: Woah Donald Uris is such an awful mean brother, he told Teddy he couldn't believe they were related! Meanwhile, Bill in the book: Georgie you waste, you're such a A-hole. Bill in the mini-series: G-go away you little puke stain, I don't feel so hot.

EXACTLY, I hate how much of Bill personally is actually lost in his fanon version.

YES, he can be mean and childish even if he is the leader of the club, in the end he’s just a kid in the same way as Richie or Eddie. He’s not a perfect person: he swears, he can be rude, but that’s fine as well, that’s why he’s character it’s so good. He’s not one sided.

The fact that he’s normally very quiet and reserved doesn’t mean he’s the super mature and diligent leader they like to make him seem, I feel like that only comes from his heavily dislike of most people and his general insecurity about his stutter, lol, not because that’s part of his personality like with Stan.

I also feel like he would be that kid of brother that always tries to rage-bait his younger siblings, he defends LOVED to say to George that he was adopted because he looked nothing like him or his mom just for the fun of it.

To touch on your point about Bill not being the "super mature and diligent leader they like to make him seem," I think what a lot of people forget (or just don't know if they haven't read the book) is that Bill isn't even necessarily a leader because he chose to be or because he has the correct personality for it. He's a leader because the magical forces at play all throughout that summer made him a leader.

If you've ever read the book, you know how much the narration makes it clear that many of the actions the characters take or the thoughts they have aren't necessarily coming from a place of logic or even intuition. And I don't mean to say that the things they do or think aren't logical or intuitive at all, it's just that that is not where they originate from in this scenario. Two immediate examples of this I can think of are the rock fight and the scene with Richie and Bill where they are walking to the clubhouse before all the Losers will end up discussing the smoke-hole ceremony.

With the rock fight, while perhaps a normal, non-magical version of this scene would've had the characters gathering rocks for ammo because they heard a fucking M80 in the distance and were being chased by bullies all summer AKA "hey guys, I just heard a dangerous firework go off in the place where kids go to mess with fireworks, maybe we should ere on the side of caution just in case our bullies (one of which is capable of murder) are the ones who set it off." Instead, Bill just tells the others to gather ammo and the others "stare at him as though he had gone crazy" and then begin gathering rocks too without question. Richie also folds him glasses up and puts them in his shirt and when asked why he did that by Bev, he tells her he doesn't know, and Eddie thinks about how he can sense that something is going to happen. All this is on page 649 (at least of my copy of IT).

Similarly, in the scene where Richie and Bill are walking to the clubhouse, there is an interesting moment in the conversation where Bill briefly mentions Bev. In this conversation, Richie and Bill are discussing the plan to make silver bullets to shoot It and after Richie essentially asks Bill what his new plan is since Bill believes the plan to make silver bullets won't work, Bill says this:

"'I got an i-i-i-idea,' Bill said. 'Simpler. But only if Beh-Beh-Beverly -' 'If Beverly what?" 'Neh-Never mind.' And Bill would say no more on the subject." -pg 692

Once again, if you've read the book, you know that Bill's new plan will be to make silver slugs rather than bullets and that Bev will shoot them at It using Bill's slingshot because she has aim so good its weird (and it is WEIRD. I fully subscribe to the theory that the Losers shine, like Danny and Dick from 'The Shining'). However, the part that makes this strange is that, if you have examined the book timeline, Bill has ZERO idea that Bev will have extraordinary aim because they haven't tested it yet. That won't happen until after Eddie breaks his arm, which happens in Chapter 16, while this conversation takes place in Chapter 15.

Both of the scenes, in my opinion, are pretty perfect examples of the Losers just automatically doing, saying or thinking something because the just know it's right, even if they have zero reason to believe that with no thought going into that belief whatsoever.

The same thing goes for Bill being the leader of the Losers Club. He isn't the leader because they explicitly chose him, because he has the right personality for it or because he made himself the leader. He's the leader because he's supposed to be. In the mind of the Losers Club, that's just right, and they don't have a specific reason for it.

Sure, you could argue that Bev and Eddie are both pointed out as viewing Bill almost like a father or older brother figure, which might place him in an authority-like position towards them, but that's never made out as a reason for Bill being a leader. Those might be contributing factors, but then that wouldn't explain why the other four Losers also view Bill without question as a leader. There's an interaction at the beginning of Chapter 13 between Bill and Richie which further proves my point on this:

"Richie had hung his transistor radio over the lowermost branch of the tree he was leaning against. Although they were in the shade, the sun bounced of the surface of the Kenduskeag, onto the radio's chrome facing, and from there into Bill's eyes. 'T-take that th-thing d-d-d-own, Ruh-Ruh-Richie,' Bill said, 'It's gonna buh-blind m-m-me.' 'Sure, Big Bill,' Richie said at once, with not smartmouth at all, and removed the radio from the branch." -pg. 619

If the fact that SK points out that Richie doesn't smartmouth Bill at all isn't enough of a clue lmao. Richie is known for always running his mouth and that makes this interaction uncharacteristic of his normal behavior. Had any of the other Losers said that, Richie would've had some joke to make.

In any case, this reblog is getting mighty long, so the point I'm trying to make is that Bill is definitely not a "super mature and diligent leader" at all. He's only a leader because that's the role the Turtle (or whatever other magical, godly forces were at play besides It ofc) wanted him to fill. In reality, Bill is an emotionally-repressed, grieving kid learning to navigate his drastically changed home life and is coping by being practically suicidal on his massive bike to gain a moment of blissful ignorance or by chasing after a murderous shape-shifting space alien in the hopes that if he kills it his parents will show him that they still love him and stop looking at him blankly. Could he still have the potential to be a leader without all the magical forces? Absolutely, but that potential is not the reason he is the leader of the Losers Club in the summer of 58'.

The Bill we see in the 2017 movie, while inspired by his book version, is not the same Bill that SK wrote in the book. Book Bill didn't take charge of the situation because he wanted to, he took charge because he had no other choice, which I think is perhaps best shown in this excerpt from the beginning of Chapter 13:

"Their eyes watched him and he wanted to tell them to look somewhere else, what did they think he was, a freak? But of course he couldn't do that, because all they were doing was waiting for him to tell them what to do now. They had come by dreadful knowledge, and they needed him to tell them what to do with it. Why me! he wanted to shout at them, but of course he knew that, too. It was because, like it or not, he had been tapped for the position. Because he was the ideaman, because he had lost a brother to whatever it was, but most of all because he had become, in some obscure way he would never completely understand, Big Bill." - pg. 619