CANCELED! Five Cartoonists on Their Problematic Faves

From:

janegray

That feeling really sucks :(

From:

owlbrigade1

Been there. Did I ever tell anyone how my ambition, when I was a little girl, was to be on Jim'll Fix It? Yikes.

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icon_uk - Date: 2020-05-05 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

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janegray - Date: 2020-05-05 11:08 pm (UTC) - Expand

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sarahnewlin - Date: 2020-05-08 01:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

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janegray - Date: 2020-05-08 04:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

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endis_ni - Date: 2020-05-06 01:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

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shadur - Date: 2020-05-06 05:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

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mastermahan - Date: 2020-05-06 09:17 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

crinos

Yeah, I've been there too.

I was a huge fan of the youtube reviewer Jontron... then I discovered he was a supporter of Gamergate.

I (maybe mistakenly) gave him a pass on that, assuming he was just a naive chunkhead who didn't know what he was talking about and shot his mouth off without having all the facts.

Then the 2016 election happened, and Jontron came out as a very avid Trump supporter, and said on twitter something to the effect of "If they had been as hard on Italian Immigrants as Trump is being on refugees now, then there wouldn't have been organized crime."

Yeah, I'm Italian American on my Mothers side. Jontron can fuck off for all eternity.

From:

beeyo

I definitely feel you on the Jontron part, but I think I'm still at the part where I can separate his art from his shitty opinions, probably because I avoid anything from him outside of his Youtube videos. I don't use Twitter and though I've caught a few things here and there, whatever fucked up views he holds don't really bleed into his content (I don't remember which video it is but at some point he comments about a game "Oh god, this is the alternate timeline where atrumo wins, isn't it?") so I guess I just actively ignore everything else.

I know that makes me a hypocrite for being so vehemently against hateful and ignorant behavior against minorities, and as a minority myself, yet at the same time still supporting his dumb ass. I'm sorry the stupid idiot messed up something that you enjoyed so much.

I don't know if you were, or are, a Grump fan. But Danny is probably the most wholesome person I've ever seen come across a screen whose name doesn't rhyme with "Blister Jobbers". Fuck Jon, watch Danny compilations instead.

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From:

crinos - Date: 2020-05-07 03:53 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

cyberghostface

Idk if I’d really put RedLetterMedia there with the rest. They’re crass but they’re not comicsgate/gamergate. Like they were critical of how Star Wars refused to make Poe gay.

From:

owlbrigade1

I definitely would, but I'm biased against them due to having been subject to online abuse from a lot of their fanbase who cannot accept that other reviewer exist and might dare to have a different opinion. I really do not want to give RLM a pass on any transgression, no matter how big or small it is, after that.

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lordultimus - Date: 2020-05-05 09:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

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cyberghostface - Date: 2020-05-05 09:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

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mastermahan - Date: 2020-05-05 11:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

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beardedjellybean - Date: 2020-05-06 09:42 am (UTC) - Expand

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shadur - Date: 2020-05-06 05:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

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lordultimus - Date: 2020-05-06 05:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

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cyberghostface - Date: 2020-05-06 07:55 pm (UTC) - Expand

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mastermahan - Date: 2020-05-07 01:43 am (UTC) - Expand

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lissa_quon - Date: 2020-05-09 07:20 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

starwolf_oakley

Dilbert has a fair amount of jokes where it is implied Alice gets the worst of working for the Pointy-Haired Boss, since she is a woman and has a family. Mixed with having work with Wally, the torment of which is spread to everyone at that office.

Dilbert is similar to Doonesbury in terms of having two jokes in the final panel. That can't be easy.

From:

jlbarnett

Alice doesn't have a family

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From:

lordultimus - Date: 2020-05-06 05:42 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

thezmage

I remember when I went to Robert Kroese’s twitter to try and find out when the new Rex Nihilo was coming to audible and found him retweeting project veritas shit. I was so disappointed but I still don’t see any of that in his novels

From:

nyadnar17

I think this is a healthy experience everyone needs to have.

I have a lot of creators who's views I dislike or who I know for a fact would hate my views.

Keeps people from falling into "Good people create good stuff, Bad people create bad stuff therefore if the work is Good the creator must be Good and if the person is Bad the work must be Bad" trap.

From:

sabertoothlotus

This is called the Genetic Fallacy: the assumption that the quality and/or value of a work/idea/product is directly related (for good or ill) to the person/people who made it.

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From:

nyadnar17 - Date: 2020-05-05 09:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

icon_uk

Yeah, Scott Adams was a disappointment, can still recall some of the jokes being rather good (Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light, Catbert) he even had a cameo in Babylon 5, looking for his dog, which he felt was going to try and take over the universe. Sigh....

Orson Scott Card is the other obvious one. I read "Ender's Game" without having been spoiled (though none of the sequels) and was sort of enjoying the "Alvin Maker" books. Now I'd only buy one if it was in a charity shop.

From:

arashinomoui

I like military Science Fiction.

I frequently have learned not to learn about my authors. David Weber, John Ringo both have warts the size of battleships.

Thankfully I’ve found some authors to write well and don’t seem to be jerks.

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lego_joker - Date: 2020-05-06 04:54 pm (UTC) - Expand

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agent8 - Date: 2020-05-06 07:42 pm (UTC) - Expand

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arashinomoui - Date: 2020-05-06 07:50 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

lbd_nytetrayn

Feels like the story of my life.

From:

jaxjyls

Dean Cain was mine

From:

luxshine

Oh, yes. He used to be my favorite Superman. Now... I just can't even see a poster of the series without thinking how much more like Lex Luthor he is.

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endis_ni - Date: 2020-05-06 01:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

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owlbrigade1 - Date: 2020-05-06 01:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

phantomfo

Adam fucking Baldwin. I actually have a selfie with him from the Seattle premier of Serenity.

From:

jkcarrier

What, this far into the thread and no one's mentioned Dave Sim yet?

From:

bruinsfan

Sim is so out there I don't really get offended by him so much as shake my head and sigh in pity like I would at someone pushing a shopping cart full of junk and carrying on a loud conversation with people who aren't present.

From:

cricharddavies

Will Eisner was one of the greatest comic strip artists of all time, possibly the greatest.

His last published Spirit story was homophobic garbage, and mischaracterized his own creations very badly.

Honor wisdom, not men.

From:

laughing_tree

I've never read her work, but the ultimate example is Marion Zimmer Bradley, no? Her fans probably *wish* she merely held racist political views, instead of, well, what she actually did.

From:

owlbrigade1

God, yeah. That was horrendous. You know someone was outright evil when the best their defenders can do is claim that she only supplied victims to, and covered for, pedophiles and that there is no evidence she was one herself [spoiler: there was].

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From:

bruinsfan - Date: 2020-05-06 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

mazway_75

While I wouldn't say a huge fan, yes, I did enjoy Bill Cosby in comedy routines and his shows, never dreaming he was....THAT.

From:

shadur

Gods, yes.

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From:

lissa_quon - Date: 2020-05-09 07:22 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

mastermahan

I really enjoy the writing of H. P. Lovecraft, so this is a familiar line of thought. Sooner or later, every Lovecraft fan has to confront the fact that he was a stone-cold racist. Lovecraft was racist even by turn-of-the-century standards. You can't separate it from his writing, because the xenophobia that fueled his racism is at the core of his writing.

The thing, I don't like Lovecraft's writing because the themes resonate with me. I like them because they don't. Reading Lovecraft puts me a paranoid worldview very different from my own. I'm not afraid of the other - I'm curious. Getting inside the head of a xenophobe is a different experience.

It certainly helps that he's long dead. Lovecraft is never going to rant on Twitter about Her Emails. I can watch Nicolas Cage in Color Out of Space and know the author isn't using my money to undermine gay rights.

From:

alicemacher

It's the same reason I had no qualms about buying the expanded, two-volume edition of T.S. Eliot's poetry. Yes, a few of his poems (including at least one previously unpublished one), and one of his public addresses (published in his lifetime), had anti-Semitic sentiments, but he too is long dead and it's not as though he bequeathed his estate's royalties to the National Front or some such.

And your point about reading those whose views you may find offensive is well-taken. While I have no desire to read something as extremist as, say, Mein Kampf (even apart from the subject matter, it's notorious as a poorly-written book), I do feel it's important not to restrict myself only to those content creators, of past days, whose views I agree 100% with.

As an example, I've watched a few archival episodes of William F. Buckley Jr.'s Firing Line. Yes, he was a staunch conservative, but he was the sort who's all but non-existent in public life today: an educated, articulate and generally civil conservative. And he welcomed free debate on the show with those whose views he didn't at all endorse. The show was fascinating and mind-broadening to watch, in contrast to today's mind-deadening rightist talk shows.

Edited (spelling) Date: 2020-05-06 08:11 pm (UTC)

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From:

lissa_quon - Date: 2020-05-09 07:24 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

docfilth

Doctor Who writer Gareth Roberts is mine. I loved his stuff since his first novel for Virgin Books in the early 90s, right through to his scripts for the David Tennant and Matt Smith eras of the show, and now he's come out as a particularly unapologetic TERF.

From:

leahandillyana

Probably this is the beef we all have with Rowling.

From:

owlbrigade1

And let us not forget Joss "they fell on my penis and I was too weakwilled to pry them off" Whedon and his casting couch during the making of Buffy and Firefly. I always said he wasn't a tenth of the feminist he claimed to be.

And Rosario Dawson, who assaulted and misgendered a trans employee. It is gonna make the next season of The Mandalorian a tough watch. And casting her as Ahsoka is gonna shade how I see the character in Rebels and TCW, I can't lie. It is not good. I hate what she did, and I also low key hate myself for the fact I will probably still watch the show too.

Edited Date: 2020-05-06 01:59 pm (UTC)

From:

thezmage

Also Graham Linehan

I never saw Jeepers Creepers or Powder, but if you’re a fan of them you might want to Victor Salva. Or not.

From:

lego_joker

My big one - and anyone who's followed me long enough on this comm will know it - is Chuck Dixon. I still consider him the masterclass on how to write a compelling story that's just about two heroes hanging out and beating up a B-list bad guy, instead of having ALL OF GOTHAM UNDER SIEGE BY AN ANCIENT CONSPIRACY!!!1! for the zillionth time. And I still consider his Joker, Riddler, and Scarecrow depictions definitive.

As a person, though? I think I'd honestly rather hang out with Frank Miller.

From:

superboyprime

You might want to give the current Warren Ellis/Bryan Hitch Batman maxi-series a try. Sounds like it'd be right up your alley.

From:

deh_tommy

I think the title’s a bit misleading. That feels to me this is less about “cancelling” people and more a case of finding out your heroes aren’t all they’re cracked up to be.

In any case, people above have mostly said what I would have said, so I’ll add being pretty disappointed in both sides of the whole #ChangeTheChannel debacle (first in the Walkers and co., then at the actual movement). Speaking of which, I used to love JewWario’s stuff, but... yeah.

EDIT: Max Landis! How could I forget? Love (most of) his work, but what I’ve heard about him doesn’t sound too flattering to say the least.

Edited Date: 2020-05-06 06:38 pm (UTC)

From:

lordultimus

Honestly, I've always been very able to seperate the art from the artist. There are exceptions (I'm not exactly going to quote Cosby anymore, and I'm all for buying artworks serial killers made specifically to destroy them), but usually I can push past stuff while acknowledging things like "Lovecraft was pretty racist even for 1920's America".

On the flipside, Dilbert just hasn't been funny since the title character stopped wearing a tie to work.

Edited Date: 2020-05-06 05:48 pm (UTC)

From:

stubbleupdate

I was talking to somebody on twitter the other day who said that when his first book is published he will scrub all presence of his opinion from twitter because

Like any artist, I have a personal responsibility to my thousands of readers to operate void of identity. Absent of ego. Removed from all political and social intention in the public sphere. Anything else is pulling focus and worth away from the work.

and that no professional should engage in discourse about their work. Once it is released, the work is the property of the audience and the artist (whose role is to manifest the aesthetic) is silent.

He also said that writing, painting, making films or sculpture is not art, but craft. Art is about manifesting the aesthetic

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From:

lissa_quon - Date: 2020-05-09 07:27 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

capnduckman

Puck, on Glee.

From:

grayarcadian

I think, if you do it right - really, really right - you create something bigger than yourself. Maybe you can never live up to it, but you should do the best you can.

This is Yet Another Reason I support the public domain as hard as I do. Individual creators will always have their place and time and limits. A collective may do bad things or sublime things, but the fiction will grow with those who work with it in a way individuals and companies are not capable of doing.

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Bringing the crack since December 2003

CANCELED! Five Cartoonists on Their Problematic Faves

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