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merhawk10:45-11:45 Oh, You Sexy Geek!— Does displaying the sexiness of fangirls benefit or demean them? When geek girls show off, are they liberating themselves or pandering to men? Do some "fake fangirls" blend sex appeal with nerdiness just to appeal to the growing geek/nerd market, or is that question itself unfair? And what's up with all the Slave Leias? Action flick chick Katrina Hill (ActionFlickChick.com) asks Bonnie Burton (Grrl.com), Adrianne Curry (America's Next Top Model), Clare Grant (Team Unicorn, "G33k & G4m3r Girls"), Kiala Kazebee (Nerdist.com), Clare Kramer (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), Nerdy Bird - Jill Pantozzi ("Has Boobs, Reads Comics"), Jennifer K. Stuller (Ink-Stained Amazons, GeekGirlCon) and Chris Gore (G4TV's Attack of the Show!) to discuss whether fans can be sexy and geeky at the same time -- and if they should! Room 6A
That sounded like a very interesting panel.
It was incredibly disappointing.
One statement in particular by Chris Gore needs to be called out. He came late to the panel, came up, looked at the rest of the audience, and said to the males in the audience that he was there to represent them because "...like all you guys out there, I want to put my penis in them."
Not cool, Chris. Completely and utterly Not. Cool. If you really don't understand why that's Not. Cool. and that you should apologize to the other panel members, I feel incredibly, incredibly, sorry for you. And any other female that you ever interact with.
Taking Chris out of the equation, the reason why the panel was disappointing was because this was not a 101 discussion, this was a 51 discussion. Other than Jennifer Stuller (and possibly Kiala Kazebee, she didn't speak much), the discussion was about how we want to dress like our favorite characters, it's not our fault that the costumes are so skimpy, and it's not appropriate to hate upon the women who dress like that.
True.
What the rest of the panelists missed was that we shouldn't have to dress in skimpy outfits just to dress like our heroine. That the artists should be giving them actual clothes, not strips of cloth that might, if they're lucky, cover their chests and groin. We should be telling the media how we want to be represented, not letting the media continually dictate to us how we should be represented.
We don't need to change the men's costumes to be scantily clad, as Bonnie Burton suggested. We need more of the women's costumes to be fully clothed. If I was out there fighting crime? I would have some kevlar costume over my midriff, not leaving it exposed the way Huntress does.
Seth Green also deserves a shout-out. He was in the audience, and started talking with the panel. He was doing his best to talk about how some of the problem is not that there's "Women coming to my Comic Conventions!", but how it's more of an oldbie's vs newbies. "I was at Comic Con when...." vs "This is my first Comic Con. Isn't it exciting!". The older fans need to be elder statesmen, not crotchety old men, waving their walkers and demanding that the kids get off of their lawn!
That sounded like a very interesting panel.
It was incredibly disappointing.
One statement in particular by Chris Gore needs to be called out. He came late to the panel, came up, looked at the rest of the audience, and said to the males in the audience that he was there to represent them because "...like all you guys out there, I want to put my penis in them."
Not cool, Chris. Completely and utterly Not. Cool. If you really don't understand why that's Not. Cool. and that you should apologize to the other panel members, I feel incredibly, incredibly, sorry for you. And any other female that you ever interact with.
Taking Chris out of the equation, the reason why the panel was disappointing was because this was not a 101 discussion, this was a 51 discussion. Other than Jennifer Stuller (and possibly Kiala Kazebee, she didn't speak much), the discussion was about how we want to dress like our favorite characters, it's not our fault that the costumes are so skimpy, and it's not appropriate to hate upon the women who dress like that.
True.
What the rest of the panelists missed was that we shouldn't have to dress in skimpy outfits just to dress like our heroine. That the artists should be giving them actual clothes, not strips of cloth that might, if they're lucky, cover their chests and groin. We should be telling the media how we want to be represented, not letting the media continually dictate to us how we should be represented.
We don't need to change the men's costumes to be scantily clad, as Bonnie Burton suggested. We need more of the women's costumes to be fully clothed. If I was out there fighting crime? I would have some kevlar costume over my midriff, not leaving it exposed the way Huntress does.
Seth Green also deserves a shout-out. He was in the audience, and started talking with the panel. He was doing his best to talk about how some of the problem is not that there's "Women coming to my Comic Conventions!", but how it's more of an oldbie's vs newbies. "I was at Comic Con when...." vs "This is my first Comic Con. Isn't it exciting!". The older fans need to be elder statesmen, not crotchety old men, waving their walkers and demanding that the kids get off of their lawn!
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 03:44 pm (UTC)more seriouslywhen fighting women are depicted w/o armor and rather in sexy poses, it's should be clear that the image isn't about giving equality to women, but the male gaze. the thing is that it's not clear to so many people.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 12:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:16 pm (UTC)UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 12:35 pm (UTC)I had no idea who this "Chris Gore" person was, but then I went back to read the panel description, and saw "Attack of the Show" i.e. he's a professional douchebag. Which raises the question of why the fuck was ever allowed on this panel in the first place?
Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 02:39 pm (UTC)Did the woman from America's Top Model actually say anything? I can't imagine anyone from that show knowing a whole lot about fandom. (the male models OR the female models (there are male models on the show, right?), so I think this says more about my view of models in general than anything else)
Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 03:10 pm (UTC)Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 03:16 pm (UTC)I was just equating it with news shows which present a whacked out right wing view as equal to a reasoned center-left view in order to "maintain balance"
Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 04:11 pm (UTC)Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 04:25 pm (UTC)Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 04:10 pm (UTC)I'm wondering why most of those panelists were there in the first place, other than the fact that they might be friends/friendly with the moderator.
Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 04:14 pm (UTC)Re: UGH.
Date: 2011-07-22 04:26 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:15 pm (UTC)No one called him out. Jennifer had a horrified look on her face, but it was the elephant in the room after that. I tried to call him out, but I was too far back in the question line.
Propagating this post/incident can be a minor bit of call out, but it didn't happen in the panel.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:30 pm (UTC)Just like woman's rights in general went through a "free love" phase which really just meant that women could act sexy if they wanted to, which was exactly what men wanted anyway, before we reacted to that and brought it back to more actual issues... maybe women's fandom is going through the "I can be a member too, and this is the easiest way to express myself" phase, and eventually, the culture will react to that. Maybe this is part of that reaction?
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 05:16 pm (UTC)Um, no. I can assure you that sexy costumes are not a central activity of "women's fandom." (Sexy fanfic and fanart, sure.) I have nothing against sexy costumes, but Hawk's point that the issue goes deeper than "hey, some of us like wearing skimpy clothes!" The ridiculous level of sexualization of female characters absolutely is an issue relevant to the panel's subject matter, and it is a topic of frequent discussion/griping among fans of the distaff persuasion. I can provide several examples if necessary.
Don't go putting the panel's lack of analytical thought on female fandom in general.
You may have noted I FEEL STRONGLY about this topic!
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 06:04 pm (UTC)However, it is highly likely that I'm over-analyzing. And your distinction between "some of us like wearing skimpy clothes" and "our favorite characters all wear skimpy clothes, and so so do we" is well taken.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-22 04:25 pm (UTC)