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Underwater Spino? :00
Paleoart again hehe. I’m new to paleoart stuff but it’s pretty fun c:
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Seeing random orcas does not give me any euphoria. It is the same feeling as seeing a random human, that it is simply “one of my kin” and that’s it.
I do wonder why it is a popular way to affirm yourself. How well does it work anyways? Is that truly “you” or just an individual of your species that you have never met and most likely never will?
For me seeing crocs doing croc things eases some of the dysphoria, it makes it easier to imagine myself being in my natural habitat and doing those things. I don’t see myself as those specific individuals, I more so use them like an avatar and imagine myself in their place doing what they’re doing. It also tends to remind me of shifts/euphoric experiences I’ve had in the past and that feels nice :3
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As a note, if anyone ever sees us using the wrong word, please clarify / tell us
We learned most of the terms when we were like... 16. In 2013-2014. So its been a while, and we honestly just dont even recognize most of the words we see.
Vivterms? Cladotherian? Holothere? I dont know any of those and i haven't been able to find an explanation of them that makes much sense.
Not too sure about vivterms and holothere but I can explain cladotherian!
Clado means clade, as in a genetic grouping of species that contains one common ancestor and all of its descendants. Cladotherians don’t identify as one specific species but instead as a group of related species. It’s not like having multiple kintypes, it’s more so identifying as the essence of a group of animals instead of one specific animal.
I’m a pseudosuchia cladotherian, the group pseudosuchia is an ancient lineage that contains: the ancestors of modern crocodiles, animals that morphologically resembled crocodiles but aren’t true crocodiles, and modern day true crocodiles, caimans, gharials, and alligators. So basically if it looks like anything remotely resembling a croc it’s me lol
Cladogram made by Gabriel Ugueto on Twitter: https://x.com/SerpenIllus?s=20
So for example a canidae cladotherian would identify as the essence of all canines! So wolves, foxes, coyotes, jackals, dholes, African wild dogs, maned wolves, and all domestic breeds of dog.
A vulpes cladotherian would identify as the essence of all foxes, red fox, grey fox, fennec, arctic, etc instead of just a specific species of fox.
Cladotherianthropy can be as broad as identifying as something like animalia; so literally all animals, or it can be as narrow as something like dugonginae; which only contains two species: the dugong and Stellar’s sea cow (RIP 😭).
This isn’t the case for every cladotherian but the reason I personally chose the cladotherian label instead of just a specific species like kaprosuchus or a Nile crocodile is because I don’t really feel like just one species. My shifts are pretty varied but they all feel croc so I think the cladotherian label works best for me 🐊
I hope this makes sense, if you have any questions feel free to ask :D
ooh, okay, so it's not Only Clades, but any group that's larger than a specific species, sounds like?
i think i understand it if i think about it as a sort of... 'i am fox' if you identify as a vulpus cladotherian, but if it's also 'i am specifically all of these' i feel a bit confused. like, is it the standard to check all of them individually and make sure? cause in larger groups like canidae or kingdoms, i feel like that would be really difficult to check every individual one and confirm them. so is that kind of, not as much of a thing for this? or is that a different word entirely..?
Yeah basically that! It’s just a broader way of identifying as a group of animals that share similar traits and morphology without getting deep into the nitty gritty of narrowing down a species, like “I am just fox, not red fox or arctic fox, just fox in general”.
From my experience and from talking to other cladotherians the way most people land in the cladotherian label is they can narrow down their shifts and feelings to a group of animals but they can’t really pin all of their experiences to one species, like all of their therianness feels too similar to say “oh I just have multiple kintypes” but it doesn’t feel specific enough to just be one species. For cladotherians making sure your shifts align with every species in the clade isn’t really emphasized that much, like you might have some species in that clade that are just don’t align with what you feel at all but if your therian experiences align with most of the species in the group I’d say it’s safe to say you’re a cladotherian. The general idea is that all of these animals in this group are related by some traits/behavior/morphology and it’s like you’re identifying with that overall vibe instead of the behavior and appearance of one specific species.
Back when I first joined the community in 2017 there was definitely more pressure to really introspect and not to claim kintypes without really really really thinking about it and it was even encouraged to have other members of the community “grill” you and make sure you really were that species. But a lot of people started to see that as gatekeepy so over the years the general vibe has shifted more towards “hey if that’s how you feel dude it’s your body and your experience so who am I to tell you you aren’t thinking enough about it”.
For my first few years in the community I actually used to identify as a hyena and that felt right for a little while but due to the “really think about it and make sure” mindset over time calling myself a hyena began to feel more like a square peg round hole situation. So for a few years I really tried feeling out and writing down my shifts and what situations brought me true species euphoria and after doing that for a bit I found my experience aligned much more with big ass aquatic reptiles rather than any mammalian predator so I started exploring crocodilian species.
For a bit it seemed like the Nile crocodile was the closest thing that matched but then some shifts really couldn’t be attributed to Nile crocodiles, they felt like something more like caiman or alligator but then when I looked at those species they weren’t a perfect fit either. I also had shifts that felt more terrestrial and like active pursuit hunting instead of ambush hunting but these shifts were still very crocy (I think these shifts were what led me to label myself as a mammalian predator in the first place since most predatory mammals are active terrestrial hunters). So then I started looking into ancient croc species and their cousins to see if I could find something that encompassed all my experiences and the closest I got were the long legged terrestrial pseudosuchians like kaprosuchus and postosuchus. I kept going from species to species and for a little while I thought that spinosaurus fit all my shifts despite it not being a croc at all but that label didn’t really feel right either.
I was torn, how can I feel like an African crocodile in a watering hole while also feeling like a swamp puppy in the Everglades while also feeling like a running dog with a crocs face while also feeling like a saltwater crocodile in the ocean while also feeling like a bipedal bitey monster? Then I discovered what cladotherians were and it just clicked! I wish I could explain it better than that but then I would have to give you like years worth of shifty notes lol
So yeah cladotherianthropy for me is more so saying that “I am kind of the vibe of all these related species and not one in particular”. In the future if they ever discover a prehistoric croc-like reptile that fits all my shifts then I may drop the cladotherian label and identify as that species but until then I’m just the essence of crocs :D
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