Esperfulmo

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Late Bohairic pronunciation

Hey @Mahmudmasri,

Thank you for your effort in adding IPA to Coptic toponyms. I got question – why are you using "Late Bohairic" pronunciation and not Classical Bohairic? Ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 18:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, well since Late Bohairic is the only pronunciation documented without any speculation or reconstruction, and since it survives to a limited extent to this day. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:42, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean by "documented"? To my knowledge it was reconstructed primarily by Emil Maher Ishaq. And what do you mean by it "surviving" to this day? Coptic is a dead language as far as i know (apart from it being a liturgical language of the Coptic Church). --Ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

So as George P. G. Sobhy's work. They actually documented what was still pronounced by those who haven't adopted the Greo-Coptic reformed pronunciation in monasteries. Also, since it is the last form of Coptic, why provide a pronunciation of an older form of it? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 00:21, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Israel

Hey, I accidentally wiped your latest contributions to Israel when I edited mine. You can paste them back in or I can do it at a later point, just giving you a heads-up about it.

➤ Zᴇᴇx.ʀɪᴄᴇ ✪ (ᴛᴀʟᴋ) 05:37, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Well, go ahead and paste it. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 05:48, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Done. ➤ Zᴇᴇx.ʀɪᴄᴇ ✪ (ᴛᴀʟᴋ) 06:13, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Representation of Arabic

Hey, it looks like we pay attention to some of the same articles. I thought I should send a message. I reverted the changes you made to Halaib & Port Sudan. For Halaib, the reasons are explained in greater detail on the Talk page: Basically, MOS recommends against using alternative spellings in the lead sentence, so I had moved these to a special section. For Port Sudan, you gave an IPA pronunciation citing the MOS on Arabic. WP:MOSAR actually recommends a specific Romanisation—not IPA. Additionally, I used to live in Port Sudan, & I've never heard anyone pronounce the name with a voiceless initial /p/. People pronounce بور exactly as it's written. If you want to discuss these issues further, we should probably talk about them at the Talk pages of the respective articles, but I wanted to drop you a note. Hope you're well. Take care. Pathawi (talk) 19:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Port Sudan is just like Port Said in the way they were named and alternatively pronounce with [p]. The majority don't utter [p] at all, but still a few would still pronounce it. Since you were there, did someone actually say [buːr] rather than [boːr]? In romanized Arabic, both are distinguished which makes būr a wrong, misleading transcription. This particular mistake is habitually repeated on Wiktionary, too. People see و and always use ū.

On the other hand, IPA is important when names are confusing or too difficult to infer from transcriptions, such as in the case of, I don't know who preferred that spelling, Hala'ib which suggests a glottal stop, commonly spelled with an apostrophe, as in Qur'an. There is no rule to prohibit IPA notations, if you didn't like them, you don't need to wipe them out. Thanks. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 08:25, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think people actually say either [boːr] or [buːr] in colloquial speech: They say [bur]. In Fuṣḥā (eg on al-Jazeera) you'll hear [buːr] & [boːrt]. No one ever says [p] in Port Sudan: For most people in the city, /p/ is not in their available phonemic inventory. You can absolutely add IPA if you want—I have no objection: The core MOS issue is that it shouldn't replace Romanisation. Pathawi (talk) 16:13, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

& yes: Hala'ib is absolutely wrong. Unfortunately, it does appear in English writing. Probably someone with a small amount of Arabic knowledge who assumes that whenever they hear [aːji] in Egypt it's Fuṣḥā /a:ʔi/. Pathawi (talk) 16:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

• The argument about whether to transcribe toponyms in Arabic speaking countries with a Literary Arabic pronunciation or not is problematic for two main reasons:

1. People normally pronounce names, including personal names in their respective native dialects, including when saying a prepared speech in Literary Arabic. The same is also mostly true for saying numerals.
2. Often, too many names are not Arabic and an Arabized form is fabricated to fit Literary Arabic phonotactics, i.e. to sound and look Arabic.

• For /p/, one could say the same on every Arabic dialect, including Egyptian Arabic, however it is commonly found in loanwords and educated people can pronounce it with varying degrees. So, for example, the word "port" in Port Said, Port Fouad, Port Sudan, is pronounced either [poːɾ] or [boːɾ] by Egyptians. The word "port" here is actually a French loanword which means the same in English, just pronounce with an ending /t/. Thanks. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 19:23, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Greater Cairo Cities/Satellite Cities

Hi, I saw your recent edits on Greater CairoGreater Cairo cities and satellite cities and believe they are incorrect.

Helwan used to be a city, but was recently demoted to a district in Cairo city (see Helwan)

New Heliopolis, Madinaty and Rehab are real estate developments within ElShorouk and New Cairo and not cities themselves (see the hyperlinked pages). Overall, the 'new cities' can be found in this government list. Ypedia1 (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I indented some of them under their cities. Thanks for noticing

I indented some of them under their cities. Does that still make them appear as if they are separate entities? Thanks for noting about Helwan. It was changed many times, I'll fix this. It is also confusing, because some maps used on Wikipedia have wrong borders, like incorporating a part of Giza governorate. --Esperfulmo (talk) 18:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes Helwan is quite confusing. If the real estate developments are to be included, that should better be based on some standardised reasoning and applied to all satellite cities. One metric would be area, but again what would be the rationale to choose it: over 1000 acres, 5000, etc?

I also noticed you removed 15th May, even though its on the list and on Cairo's map. Ypedia1 (talk) 20:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Regarding 15 May, because it was defined as part of Cairo, just like Helwan. --Esperfulmo (talk) 20:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes another confusing informality. 15 May was supposed to be devolved to Cairo Governorate from NUCA, so Cairo Gov set up the district (hayy), but was never transferred and remains run by the gehaz. Ypedia1 (talk) 22:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll source that in the article. You know, it's hard for me when official sources claim something else and occasionally Wikipedians frown upon sourcing Facebook and other social networks, even if official pages. Actually, I find your research complementing. Why haven't you already used these sources in the article? --Esperfulmo (talk) 15:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Arabic International Phonetic Alphabet

The article Arabic International Phonetic Alphabet has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article subject is non-notable. I cannot find any references to AIPA other than from the creator and his institution. I am also unaware of any usages of this transcription system.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Edderiofer (talk) 06:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I didn't initiate the article, however it was published in academic sources in Saudi Arabia. It seems that in the other languages of Wikipedia it was allowed to remain for years. If you still think it has to be deleted, then open the discussion and see other people's input. Thanks. --Esperfulmo (talk) 22:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on List of radio stations in Egypt

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A barnstar for you!

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	Wiki & I love you! ASAP1123 (talk) 23:20, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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Thanks

Thank you for examining and reverting a string of politically motivated edits. Since you seem to have enough general linguistic knowledge in this area, I wanted to ask if you would you interested in briefly reviewing Yemenite Hebrew and seeing if it could use improvements? I came across the article and found it discursive and hard to follow. Hftf (talk) 07:07, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'll check later if there's something I can help with. --Esperfulmo (talk) 18:23, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

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Yom Kippur War

There are also some historians who confirm that Egypt won the October War, pointing to the destruction of the Bar Lev Line and the successful crossing of the Suez Canal.

Please add in the "Aftermath" section: Military analyses differ: some believe that Israel won, others that Egypt won, while some consider the result to be inconclusive

Trusted sources:

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=GS4DBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA65&dq=egyptian+victory+yom+kippur+war&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtx9rL4p%200AhXOgVwKHdYRBW04WhDoAXoECAsQAg#v=onepage&q=egyptian%20victory%20yom%20kippur%20war&f=false

https://books.google.com.eg/books?redir_esc=y&id=aYNIAAAAMAAJ&dq=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1+%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=GORNDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT186&dq=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1+%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1+%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A+%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj93d7gjaL0AhWZ8uAKHSejBtM4HhDoAXoECAgQAg#v=onepage&q=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1%20%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%20%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A%20%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84&f=false

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=Ea8NAQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=October+victory+1973&hl=en&sa=X&redir%20esc=y#v=onepage&q=October%20victory%201973&f=false

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=9lIOS5DjocIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=egyptian+victory+yom+kippur+war&hl=en&sa=X&redir%20esc=y

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=abRzAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA410&dq=egyptian+victory+yom+kippur+war&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtnsHa5J%200AhXJQEEAHT-UC7Q4vgEQ6AF6BAgDEAI#v=onepage&q=egyptian%20victory%20yom%20kippur%20war&f=false

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=nR5vDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT96&dq=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1+%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A+%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8+%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBt674i6L0AhWV8uAKHcgEDQ4Q6AF6BAgFEAI#v=onepage&q=%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%B1%20%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A%20%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8%20%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1&f=false ~2025-31790-50 (talk) 01:33, 7 November 2025 (UTC)

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Unichar

Good to see that the bug has been fixed promptly. The reason for this message is an fyi in case you weren't aware: you don't need to type out the name of the character any more as it is fetched automatically from Wikidata. Thus

• {{unichar|06A7}}

generates

• U+06A7 ڧ ARABIC LETTER QAF WITH DOT ABOVE

which is convenient. You can give it if you want but it is treated as code documentation. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:47, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Edit revert

hey, i saw you prev, i just wanna say that ACA is not standardized in any way, and some people i've seen (including me) do infact include sun and moon letter assimilation, also i've lived in the UAE for some bit and i can confirm, they use شو (shu) there, i dont know if this is across all gulf states or not but i know they do use it in the UAE, which speaks gulf arabic Ziggzevenzigma (talk) 09:18, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

Maybe, it's under the influence of the lots of Levantines there. Anyway, we are trying to stick to sources, as you already know, the spelling conventions are not standardized. --Esperfulmo (talk) 13:11, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

شوف اللي بعتهولك على صفحة نقاشك في وبكيبيديا المصرية

شوف يا ادمن اللي بعتهولك على صفحة نقاشك في ويكيبيديا المصرية والتخريب اللي بيحصل في الموسوعة ومسح كل الكلام من اوس الليبي وكريم احمد ~2026-30683-71 (talk) 16:05, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

Rendering breve diacritics

With this edit, you removed the {{serif}} markup which ensures that Android uses don't get tofu. At least this Android user on v16. What are using? What kind of error are you seeing? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:23, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

The huge character shown in the table is correct. Maybe, we should find out which style the table uses and use it all over since it works in all cases.

In the article body, with the serif span code, the diacritic is placed to the right of the circle, i.e. not on top of the character, but a little bit on its right. This rendering is how it appears, whether I'm logged in or not. Though some browsers would have the issue of rendering an X-like symbol or a tofu as you called it without the serif style. The Android version is 11. --Esperfulmo (talk) 13:28, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

How serious is the problem you experience? Because Android 11 is almost six years old now and most users have a later version. Presenting them with the .notdef character when we have a simple workaround does not seem sensible. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:47, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

My suggestion is to create another template to display combining characters and have a sub-page with all known fonts that are expected to render them correctly. That way no one will have issues.

I'm ready to help to create the font stack that will render combining characters across all common platforms. By the way, my phone isn't slow or old, it's very fast and has no issues with apps or fonts. The reason it has an older Android is because it's a long-term supported phone rather than the disposable ones that people throw away every year. --Esperfulmo (talk) 18:07, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Are Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 226#Combining breve (and Template talk:Infobox punctuation mark#span style="color:transparent etc} relevant?

You still haven't said how that workaround causes problems with your phone? There are dozens of use-cases in thousands of articles for that template or others that have the same effect.

In the meantime, we really need to cater for the large majority of Android users for whom the simple {{serif}} avoids the problem [and virtually nobody gets a new phone every year, I expect to keep mine for at least six years, it is already four years old.], so you really need to make a convincing reason why I shouldn't reinstate it. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:21, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Can we add instead something like <span class="combc" style="font-family: 'Noto Sans' serif">{{char|◌̆}}</span> to fix the issue? I understood from your links that Noto Sans fixes the issue and it renders to me properly. Rather than hoping the browser behaves expectedly. Testing with the phrase serif anywhere always displays the combining character on the right side. If we have a class, preferably in a template for such cases, we can override them individually. I want to override them on my CSS, as I'm not expecting whatever workaround you'd use will work for me. Thanks. --Esperfulmo (talk) 19:10, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Yes that works for me (on Chrome over ChromeOS) but Windowa, Linux and Mac users don't have Noto Sans. Maybe if we added Segoe UI and 'Apple Symbols to the string, it might work. Do you have a convenient test bed?

Do you have problems reading Apostrophe? Or this text in serif using to the xt template? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:04, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

The serif text appears as expected, with or without logging in. Note that I already overrode this class with a serif font stack, but it's still serif to me. The apostrophe article appears flawlessly. The issue with the combining characters, as in the case of the breve, appears regardless of whether I'm logged in or not. We can use the Wikipedia:Sandbox for testing. --Esperfulmo (talk) 20:59, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

--Esperfulmo (talk) 21:07, 13 July 2026 (UTC)

Forget I said Apple Symbols, I was distracted by another rendering issue that I've been looking at. I have no idea which Apple font is relevant. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:47, 13 July 2026 (UTC)