Talk:Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front

Latest comment: 16 days ago by PizzaKing13 in topic GA review

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nene Erik.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:05, 17 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:11, 16 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Reworked FMLN entry

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I have done some work to fix the many problems with this page. I have fixed (and in some cases removed) much of the grammar and unclear English. I have added some information. I have removed things that were obviously not from a NPOV. There is still more work I'd like to do on this page, but I think that I have done enough to warrant removing the NPOV warning at the top as well as the 'copyediting needed' notice at the top. Who can make that decision? Can I just do it myself? --Takealeft 6/6/2006

--

I am going to remove the NPOV warning and the 'copyediting needed' notice at the top of this entry. I think I have done enough work on it to have resolved those issues. If someone disagrees, please discuss here. Thanks. --Takealeft 6/7/2006

Edits: Grammatical, etc.

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Removed: "a group that headed a single handed pro cuban insurrectionist leftist movement within the country as early as the 1960's" because it was poorly written, grammatically incorrect (capitalization?), because this article is not about the Sandinistas, and because while the Sandinistas were supported by and ideologically aligned with the Cuban revolution, their raison d'être was the liberation of Nicaragua rather than support of the Cuban revolution. By that logic, the French Revolution was pro-American. Also, please sign edits. Durito 22:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

Edited: "Unity of the various formations was not immediate nor a natural result within the battle for the alleged ¨equality¨ that the radical socialists waged", due to lack of clarity and failure to adhere to NPOV and encyclopedic standards. For example, "radical" in this context is a perjorative term rather than a technical one clarifying a particular subset of socialism. Furthermore, the paragraph seemed to be arguing that the FMLN was primarily a Cuban conspiracy, rather than a Salvadoreno movement. --Durito 22:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

Added copyedit and POV-check templates. I did some clean-up, but haven't finished. Most of the mess seems to be the result of poor editing done to the original article by an anonymous user. Durito 22:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Reply


I'll be happy to copyedit here too: it's a well-done article and deserves to be presented / heard / discussed etc., controversial or not. But the NPOV elements are too glaring, and I hesitate qua mere copyeditor to eliminate them: for instance,
"they went into exile due to the unlawful military administration governments activities..."
-- and --
"Other opinions within the country clearly express hope within the actions of FMLN as their campaign is focused on the socialist aspects of assisting the repressed populations affected by extreme poverty and the ever decreasing natural resources within El Salvador..."
-- both of which read like a political platform / propaganda, 1970s MaosLittleRedBook stuff, very dated sloganeering -- not needed, here, to make the FMLF point, and simply enraging to the opposition. So if someone else pls would get rid of these two statements and others like them, mere copyeditors like me then can help with the rest: leave that stuff in, tho, and this entire very good article will die for being non-NPOV -- which would be a loss both for its writers and for the Wikipedia.
--Kessler 23:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)Reply

I removed the fascist tag as it was clearly a silly mistake [Akimiv]

-This article sounds like someone's opinion at some point, almost like an editorial, specifically the "FMLN in armed struggle" section. Needs to be cleaned up and backed up with citations. [jorge] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.44.67.4 (talk) 22:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)Reply

Fair use rationale for Image:Elsalvador-fmln.jpeg

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Image:Elsalvador-fmln.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)Reply

Fair use rationale for Image:Anamaria1.jpg

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Image:Anamaria1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)Reply

NPOV?

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"The US knew what their funds were being used for, but continued sending money to the extremist groups. All so that there would be no more socialist countries in the "backyard" of the United States and so they could extend their sphere of influence and continue on their imperialist ways. The US government along with the right wing el salvadoran government are responsible for the innocent deaths of women and children during the civil war. Both administrations run by greed and killing the poor who chose to stand against them."

Recent Elections?

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Should there be mention of Mauricio Funes as the 2008 Presidential candidate for the FMLN? I should think that it would be worth mentioning, especially due to the FMLN's lead in the polls-- they're doing quite well, apparently, and have the advantage over ARENA, according to this article-- 33 percent of Salvadorans support the FMLN while only 23 percent back ARENA. (For an alternate viewpoint, there is an article on The Washington Post regarding Funes' elevation as Presidential Candidate.) This blog also has a lot of links to online magazines and newspapers related to the elections, if anyone would like to take a look at that. Yaminator (talk) 00:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Some mention of FMLN's success in Salvadoran legislative election, 2009 would be nice, please. --PFHLai (talk) 06:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)Reply

Castro intervention? / Lack of citations

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"It is rumored Fidel Castro invited the five organizations separately to Havana, where, once assembled, he prompted them to join together at gunpoint with an AK-47."

Where is the citation for this? This whole article lacks references/citations. As of this time, there are only two for the whole article. This Does Not Help Me AT ALL!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.127.1.224 (talk) 15:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Not sure about this part

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"Citations for Salvadoran military bombing of civilian population: Douglas Tweedale, “Rebels pull back; Next move unclear in Salvador war,” United Press International, November 19, 1989 reports hours of bombardment of FMLN-occupied areas of San Salvador during the early morning of November 19. Via Ochoa thesis cited below.

Paying the Price: Ignacio Ellacuria and the Murdered Jesuits of El Salvador by Teresa Whitfield, Temple Press 1994, p. 3: "...the FMLN occupied areas that were poor and heavily populated. All feared the civilian cost of the armed forces' counteroffensive. Artillery and aerial bombardment had left some families trapped in their homes without food, water, or power; others were fleeing their neighborhoods, running through the streets beneath the paltry protection of white flags."

"El Salvador 1989: The Two Jesuit Standards and the Final Offensive", by Ignacio W. Ochoa, 2003, master's thesis in Latin American studies at San Diego State University, p. 56: "At daybreak [on November 18] army airplanes were dropping highly destructive bombs over the civilian areas under FMLN control; helicopters constantly flew over using heavy artillery. In response, the guerrillas began to use anti-aircraft artillery within the city itself." The author was in San Salvador, at and near the University of Central America campus, during November 1989.)"

Should it be removed from the page? Cited? Discuss. --VintageGuitarGuy (talk) 21:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

Spanish Names

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Does anybody know our policy with respect to translating Spanish names? This is the English wikipedia, and it seems that the large number of spanish names in this article really isn't helping anybody. Vanamonde93 (talk) 06:12, 3 December 2013 (UTC)Reply


SIEGE OF THE SHERATON HOTEL EL SALVADOR I have some doubt as to the veracity/accuracy of the statement that "One of the most famous battles in San Salvador took place in the Sheraton Hotel (13°41′27.36″N 89°14′31.15″W), where guerrillas and army soldiers battled floor-by-floor." According to my recollection of the news at the time and the article in TIME magazine (cited here: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,150736,00.html ) the siege of the US Green Berets by FMLN guerrillas in the Torre VIP of the Sheraton Hotel did not include a shoot out and was resolved peacefully.

[1]

79.190.56.141 (talk) 13:24, 25 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

References

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Requested move 3 March 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) queen of 🖤 (they/them; chat) 23:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply


Farabundo Martí National Liberation FrontFMLN – Per WP:COMMONNAMENgram Viewershows FMLN is more commonly used than the current title. Zinderboff(talk) 11:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)  Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talkcontribs) 15:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC)  Relisting. queen of 🖤 (they/them; chat) 19:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Note: WikiProject Central America has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Note: WikiProject El Salvador has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Note: WikiProject Military history has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per Britannica. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Britannica uses both names for the title and FMLN for the remainder of the encyclopaedic entry. FMLN already redirects here so there’s no other notable organisation with the same abbreviation. Google Ngram is clear that FMLN is far more commonly used than the current name. Zinderboff(talk) 03:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Which is standard just like we do with this article, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Abbreviations#Miscellanea for exceptions. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:26, 14 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Rename to Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación Nacional. Translations are best avoided unless it can be shown that this is the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Not a good idea per WP:ENGLISH. Zinderboff(talk) 00:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Not at all what WP:UE says, although frequently misinterpreted by editors. It categorically does not mandate slavish translation of everything into English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Noted, thank you for the information. Zinderboff(talk) 15:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Comment Per WP:AT: Abbreviations and acronyms are often ambiguous and thus should be avoided unless the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject (e.g. PBS, NATO, Laser). MOS:ACROTITLE would essentially repeat this but does give further clarification regarding why we might not use the abbreviation/acronym. Briefly looking at this, a case may be made for the proposed move but it probably needs further evidence to show that it is commonly used alone and not with the full name usually being used to introduce the acronym. As for the Spanish name being used, my initial searches would indicate that the English translation is much more common and that the Spanish name should not be considered as the article's title. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose - I think that WP:AT and MOS:ACROTITLE provide arguments against this rename, and I concur with what Cinderella157 said. I would be against the move at this time. Brat Forelli🦊 19:39, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose per above comment. Abbreviations are nice and all, but mean nothing if you dont already know its full meaning. Plenty of abbreviations could also have more than one meaning, complicating its use outside of circles familiar with the subject. Further oppose renaming the article to its native spanish name, as this might make it harder for some to find it, seeing as this is english wikipedia and readers would expect to find it under its english name, which should also be more than common enough on its own! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 19:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA review

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This review is transcluded from Talk:Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: PizzaKing13 (talk · contribs) 18:53, 5 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Reviewer: ThaddeusOrlando55 (talk · contribs) 23:22, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Saludos. Because I evidently have no life, I might as well review this, to cross another political party review off of my list. Because this is about a currently active party, I shall strive to maintain neutrality. Also, due to the article's length, this review may take a little while to complete, though I shall of course do my best to finish it in a timely manner. ThaddeusOrlando55 (talk) 23:23, 27 May 2026 (UTC)Reply

Images

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Thirteen images in total. Three flags or logos, a map, a video still, and eight photos. Mostly fine, although a few notes.

  • Regarding the photo of Farabundo Martí, the linked source does include the photo, but it doesn't include a date or the location it was taken. Assuming that the location given in the description is true, the page would also need a tag to indicate why it would be public domain in Nicaragua.
  • Removed image
  • The map has an own work tag, which would be true for the coloring, but since the map itself was made by the CIA, a U.S. government agency, I believe that it should also have some sort of public domain status based on that, and an additional tag to indicate it.
  • Added
  • The link to the Hess Miller photo is dead. You should include an archive link.
  • This gives me a 503 error
  • Odd. It worked for me. Now?
  • For the caption of the photo of Funes and Sánchez Cerén, I think that you should include the year it was taken.

Sources

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Eighty-five sources in total. Nine books, fifteen election result publications, seven journal articles, three theses, thirty-five newspaper articles, and sixteen web sources. Most of the relevant pages are accessible by me. (I did not expect to see a source written by El Salvador's current vice president.)

  • Theses are usually considered to be of questionable quality as far as sources go, and you cite three here. Ching's is fine since he is a prominent historian of El Salvador and I've looked at that thesis before for other reviews. Are Ghanem and Paszyn of a similar expertise?
    • The ProQuest id for the Paszyn thesis doesn't seem to be working (but I can otherwise access the pdf).
    • hm. removed
    • For Gerson Chávez's article, you don't provide a translation of the title nor include the parameter identifying the language it is written in, like the other articles.
    • Fixed
    • Regarding the article "Diez partidos políticos convocaron a internas hacia elecciones 2027: fechas y plazos", you use the title translation "Ten Political Parties Convokes Primary Elections...", but I believe that should be "Ten Political Parties Convoke".
    • Fixed
    • The link for the Univision article seems to be dead.
    • Fixed

    Grammar, prose, etc.

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    Lead

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    • The first paragraph is short (one sentence). You may wish to say in the first paragraph that it is a left-wing party, and when it was founded, both as a guerrilla group and as a party.
    • Added

    History

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    • "... he instead called for a "prolonged popular war" modeled on the Viet Cong"..." Is this the same concept as a people's war? If so, you should link it.
    • Linked
    • Reworded
    • Linked
    • "They viewed the FSLN's victory in the Nicaraguan Revolution as a sign that they needed to set aside ideological differences and create a united vanguard to launch a successful revolution." Is that a reference to a typical military vanguard or the Leninist idea of vanguardism? Or both?
    • I assume probably both
    • "Carpio's death also led to the FMLN approaching the Salvadoran government to enter negotiations ahead of the 1984 presidential election in the hopes of joining a government." Not mandatory, but you may wish to link coalition government for the Americans in the audience, since that's not really a thing here.
    • "The FMLN and Duarte's government held several meetings between 1984 and 1988 but were unable to come to an agreement to end the civil war." Is there a specific reason why? My assumption would be that it is related to the subsequently mentioned continuous attacks by the FMLN.
    • Added
    • "FMLN militants particularly attacks American military personnel" That should be "attacked".
    • fixed
    • "FMLN membership varied throughout the civil war: it was as low as 4,000 members in 1981 to as high as 15,000 members in 1991." That sounds like generally an increase. Is it known if it ever dropped substantially at any point during the war?
    • I don't think so. Per my research 1.5 years ago on my sandbox, the FMLN's membership throughout the civil war was
    • 4,000 (1981)[20]
    • 12,000 (1984)[21]
    • 9,000–11,000 (1985)[14]
    • 6,000–8,000 (1988)[21]
    • 15,009 (1992)[22]
    • 50,000 collaborators[22] <– these are non-combatants so shouldn't be counted in the total membership, like how in the 2022–present crackdown the tens thousands of gang collaborators aren't counted as gang members
    • so it fluctuated and didn't necessarily only go up.
    • Since you mention the FMLN supporting Guillermo Ungo's candidacy in 1989, would be fair to add them to the electoral history section as supporting him? (With potentially a note explaining that the FMLN was not a legal party until 1992)
    • Added to the table
    • "Ungo finished in fourth place with 3.8 percent of the vote." If you think this is too much information you may disregard this, but you could give the total number of votes he received.
    • I leave it out elsewhere so I'd prefer to leave it out here too
    • "Cristiani was more moderate than his predecessor, Major Roberto D'Aubuisson" His predecessor as what? I assume that you mean as ARENA's presidential candidate, but because you described Cristiani as succeeding Duarte as president, the reader may get the wrong impression. You may wish to more directly say "than previous ARENA candidate Major Roberto D'Aubuisson".
    • Reworded
    • "In November 1989, the FMLN launched the final offensive of 1989 in a bid to overthrow Cristiani's government and ignite a popular uprising, but the offensive failed and the popular uprising did not materialize." You may wish to include the terms "again" or "once again" since that happened before (Is all that these guys did call for popular uprisings and then they never materialized ever? Proof that groups should not put "popular" in their name, because that rarely reflects reality.)
    • Inserted. Tbf to the FMLN, they don't have "popular" in their name 😛 (ignore that some of their constituent groups did)
    • "Additionally, by 1991, the FMLN abandoned Marxism–Leninism in favor of democratic socialism as the group received diplomatic support from European and Latin American social democratic governments that pressured it to negotiate peace." Link social democracy.
    • "In exchange, the FMLN agreed to demobilize." Link demobilization.
    • linked
    • "In exchange, the FMLN agreed to demobilize. The peace accords also legalized the FMLN as a political party." Because these two sentences are a bit short and cover closely connected information, you should consider combining them. Something like, "In exchange, the FMLN agreed to demobilize, with the peace accords subsequently legalizing the FMLN as a political party." Or, more succinctly "In exchange, the FMLN agreed to demobilize, being subsequently legalized as a political party."
    • Reworded
    • "According to the Truth Commission for El Salvador, around 5 percent of human rights abuses during the civil war were committed by the FMLN, in contrast to 85 percent committed by the government." You may wish to state when this commission took place or when it published its final report.
    • Added
    • "Conversely, the FPL and PCES believed that the FMLN criticized those who wanted to moderate the FMLN" I don't understand what this is trying to say. The source made it sound like the FPL and PCES didn't want to moderate the FMLN, but that sentence made it sound like the FMLN was resisting moderation and FPL-PCES were criticizing that.
    • probably copyediting fail when I expanded the article months ago. fixed
    • Added
    • According to Allison, in the 1994 election the FMLN replaced the PDC as the second-largest party. I suggest that you mention this (you mentioned Zamora coming in second to Calderón Sol, but not their exact standing overall).
    • Mentioned
    • "San Salvador, El Salvador's capital city, was among one of the FMLN's municipal victories." That should be "among the FMLN's..." or "was one of the FMLN's...".
    • changed
    • "FMLN leaders such as Hándal and Sánchez Cerén wanted to maintain the party's "orthodox" revolutionary socialist identity" Link revolutionary socialism.
    • done
    • "wanted to make the party resemble European parties that support social democracy." Shouldn't that be "supported"?
    • fixed
    • "Zamora also ran as a member of the United Democratic Center (CDU) and finished in third." Is this important to mention? Unless the CDU was specifically another splinter party from the FMLN, I don't see how it is relevant aside from Zamora at one point having been an FMLN leader and candidate.
    • Removed
    • "but Guardado and Jovel boycotted the revolutionary socialist-dominated convention and held his own rival convention" That should be "their own rival convention", unless only one of them held it.
    • Fixed
    • Added
    • "Ahead of the 2009 elections, Ortiz proposed to nominate Funes as the FMLN's presidential candidate." I think that could simply be "proposed Funes as...".
    • Reworded
    • "The FMLN–PCN–GANA coalition lost control of the legislature after the 2012 election and negotiated with ARENA to create a grand coalition government, but Reyes retained his position as president of the legislature." I feel that the words "and" and "but" should be switched around. They lost control of the legislature but were able to negotiate a coalition and Reyes got to keep his position.
    • Swapped
    • "but Sánchez Cerén denied that the FMLN itself was responsible for the truce." Was he attributing it to some other group? I checked the source and it just says that he said it wasn't an "initiative" of the FMLN, so I'm wondering if he was blaming some other person/group or just deflecting.
    • I think he was just saying the party wasnt involved and didnt try to blame anyone. I would imagine it wouldnt be a good thing to blame the government u were part of to save face for the party. "It's someone's fault but idk whose"
    • Added
    • "In the legislative election, the FMLN lost all its seats in the Legislative Assembly extraparliamentary party for the first time since participating in elections in 1994." I think that something is missing from that sentence, perhaps the word "becoming" between Assembly and extraparliamentary.
    • Fixed
    • "It furthermore failed to win any municipal race." Shouldn't that be "races"?
    • Fixed

    Ideology

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    • "and the PRTC was Trotskyite (although it later moderated to Marxism–Leninism after it joined the FMLN)." Shouldn't that be "Trotskyist"? Also, is Trotskyism considered more moderate than Marxism-Leninism?
    • Changed to Trotskyist, and Trotskyism is more extreme
    • Linked
    • "During Funes' presidency, the FMLN embraced left-wing populism during Funes' presidency." You have "during Funes' presidency" twice in the same sentence.

    Party structure and electoral results

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    "The FMLN is also a member of COPPPAL and the São Paulo Forum, two coalitions of left-wing Latin American political parties." Is it known when they joined these groups?

    Overall

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    @PizzaKing13: Whew, okay. I think that was the longest article I've reviewed so far. Apologies for the wait. I will probably give it another read-through at some point in case I missed something, but for now have left my comments, and once you address those, I should be able to pass the article. I was very impressed with the quality of this article and how neutrally it was written, given that it is a still-active party who had a president of a country within the last decade. Kudos. ThaddeusOrlando55 (talk)

    GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

    1. It is reasonably well written.
      a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
      b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
      a. (reference section):
      b. (citations to reliable sources):
      c. (OR):
      d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
    3. It is broad in its coverage.
      a. (major aspects):
      b. (focused):
    4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
      Fair representation without bias:
    5. It is stable.
      No edit wars, etc.:
    6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
      a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
      b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    7. Overall:
      Pass/fail:
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.