A BYD 07 EV model electric car is displayed at the Beijing Auto Show
Chinese carmakers sold no cars in Norway in 2019, but have managed to take 11% market share so far this year © Pedro Pardo/AFP/Getty Images
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If Europe wants to see how Chinese manufacturers could affect its all-important car industry, it could do worse than look to Norway. Fully 94 per cent of cars sold in the Nordic country in October were electric, putting it on course to hit a target of no new fossil-fuel passenger vehicles next year.
Chinese carmakers sold no cars in Norway in 2019; this year so far, they have managed to take 11 per cent market share. Brands such as MG, BYD and Xpeng are common sights on Norwegian streets. Perhaps most telling is that Oslo’s main shopping strip Karl Johans Gate has only one car dealership on it: Nio, a relatively new Chinese brand. Just around the corner, under the Financial Times’ Nordic bureau, an upmarket estate agent has been replaced by a flashy showroom for Voyah, replete with modern art.
It is hard to exaggerate the importance of Europe’s car industry either in economic terms or in symbolic value. It employs more than 13mn on the continent directly or indirectly, and accounts for one in 10 manufacturing jobs. It is equally hard to underplay the gloom in the sector right now. Amid the profit warnings being handed out by European carmakers, taboos are being threatened everywhere from Volkswagen planning its first closure of a factory in its homeland of Germany in 87 years to Europe’s oldest car plant in Turin being shut for large parts of the year.
But just as European manufacturers are being laid low by the move to electric vehicles, Chinese carmakers (and Tesla) are prospering. “I looked at VW, Toyota, Volvo, but I just think the Chinese have better technology, look cooler,” said Ivar, standing outside Nio’s dealership in Oslo. He added that the touchscreens so crucial to electric cars were far slicker in Chinese models than, say, VW’s.
Nio’s main storefront looks like a coffee shop, perhaps because it is one, selling everything from a matcha latte to pistachio cookies. “I had no idea it was a Chinese car store,” said one American tourist last month. Further on in the Nio store, it looks more like a lifestyle brand with jackets, suitcases and other bags for sale. It is only around the corner that cars such as ET5 saloon — with a starting price of NKr426,000 ($39,000) — make an appearance.
Manufacturers such as VW, Audi and Mercedes had become heavily dependent for their global sales on China, where they had to strike collaborations with local carmakers. Many Chinese companies are now beating the European marques where it hurts: by making arguably better cars in some cases. The German carmakers’ sales in China are falling hard as local manufacturers increasingly dominate. “Look at how the Chinese are now building better cars than the Europeans after starting cooperations with the Europeans decades ago. It’s amazing,” said one Nordic automotive executive.
The picture is less dramatic in Norway, even though the direction of travel is still clear and challenging for the Europeans. Tesla, the US industry upstart, is the biggest-selling brand in Norway this year, and is not far off selling as many as the next two — VW and Japan’s Toyota — combined, according to statistics from the Norwegian Road Association. Volvo, based in Sweden but owned by China’s Geely, is not far behind that duo in fourth place.
The pace of the Chinese advance in Norway has been uneven. It has been led by MG, the former UK brand that is now owned by SAIC Motor, one of VW’s partners in China. Chinese makers had reached 5 per cent market share already in their first year of sales in 2020, and 10 per cent by 2022. In 2023, their share declined before rebounding to a fresh record level this year.
Established brands are far from finished: both Toyota and Volvo have increased their market share in the past five years, but VW and BMW have seen their share drop by more than a fifth.
As to where it could lead, a simulation published this year by the European Central Bank provides for alarming reading. If China’s car industry receives subsidies similar to those applied to its solar panel sector, an ECB simulation forecast Chinese carmakers’ global market share would increase by 60 percentage points and the Europeans’ would decrease by 30 percentage points. EU domestic production would fall 70 per cent.
The US and EU have sought to stem the rise of Chinese electric cars with tariffs, but Norway has pointedly refused to follow suit. How much tariffs will check the rise of Chinese manufacturers remains to be seen. For now, Norway serves as a local warning for European carmakers of what could happen if they do not move quicker.

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(Edited)
I believe that the Japanese and the Americans face equally challenging times as a consequence of their failure to move more quickly on the EV front.

Subsidies (and many other indirect supports) have been a HUGE part of the Chinese EV sector's growth.

However, as this (and other reviews) well demonstrate, the likes of BYD, NIO and XPeng make genuinely compelling products that appeal to those who cannot afford the over-priced and over-engineered offerings of the Germans (and who also do NOT want to buy ICE-powered vehicles).

We are not talking about the Soviet Ladas and East German Trabants of yesteryear.

Or even the poor quality of Stellantis and Land Rover products.
It would be stupid of Norway, without EU membership and local car manufacturing, to help German premium brands avoid competition and probably profit at the expense of the Norwegian customers. As of now the Norwegian market is probably one of the most competetive for electric vehicles outside of China.
Germany next!
Europeans who were so scandalised by NSA/Edward Snowden whistleblowing and are now embracing driving in a (potential) life feed to the Chinese state. *facepalm*
Cut the red tape, subsidize your cars, cut your taxes for carmakers, stop regulating yourself to death.
I bought a Xiaomi mi 11 ultra a few years ago. Great phone. Great hardware. Half the price of an I phone and equivalent or better specs..plus I can customise the os. I'm glad I had a choice
But won’t president Xe be listening ?
He would soon be tired of all trash talk. And the Americans are already tapping the best parts by having access to the network traffic.
let’s get real. Is there a risk of the mistake repeating itself? Look a the solar tech - billions spend across Europe on ever cheaper Chinese panels / inverters etc and problem not solved - prices high, subsidies high and of course no baseload generation (unless of course, more stuff is purchased being storage equipment). Killing European manufacturers will make millions of workers poorer (especially in Germany) who in order to travel to new lower paid job places will have to buy eventually an expensive Chinese electric car that suffers from a very fast practical depreciation in terms of equity value. That means that relatively to earnings, millions of people will need to spend more money to keep job places.
The key explanation was in FT yesterday https://www.ft.com/content/cfd77e84-5d5b-47ae-96bd-9973b1c18662 see first chart of world electric power prices with China with the lowest price. Hard to compete in the market of energy intensive products with China.
The average price for large industrial customers seem to be on par with China here in Sweden (no tax on electricity for the steel and petrochemical industry). But this unfortunately does not mean a great advantage when other costs are so much higher.
Innovation is what might save European car makers. Not tariffs.
Good on Norway for not making their citizens pay for private industry’s shortcomings.
Small countries generally don't have car industries due to low economies of scale. Exemptions to this are nations where a good percentage of the workforce is employed in Auto manufacturing that is destined for export like Slovakia. In the case of Norway, O&G takes a slice of the small blue collar labour force.
I think we have been brain-washed into thinking a car has to be US$80K or more, or that a Rivian pick-up should be US$120K. As a consumer I have a desire to get great technology at a very good price, if it lasts and its proven, then fantastic. So let me have access to it. Apple makes the phone in China, let me buy the phone on wheels if that's what it is. But don't block the product from the market which will then have the adverse effective of removing a catalyst technology producer from the market and the domestic guy keeps making the same old product and charges to much for it. Putting up tariffs and keeping out the product will cause more long-term harm than any good. I would like to see the Chinese worker paid more and work in great industry, the likelihood of their life improving is better for my long-term health in this crazy world. as a consumer, let me choose domestic over Chinese, if the domestic guy wants my business then they need to show me the product that I like.
Come on, FT! A Nordic automotive exec saying how much better Chinese cars are compared to Europeans? There’s only one Nordic manufacturer, Volvo, & it’s owned by the Chinese.
Britain is one of the biggest car markets in Europe. During Brexit, the Germans were warned that they relied on Britain's market and that a good deal for all concerned was preferable. The Europeans chose instead to serve up thin gruel. The result is alienation and British consumers will have no great reluctance to try a Chinese car. There is no solidarity left with the Europeans.
I drive a Chinese made Tesla 3… seems solid so far and certainly is a better EV than anything from BMW, Audi, …

I was sort of waiting and seeing and at some point gage up on waiting seeing the half-hearted efforts by the likes if VW.

European car makers need to pull their finger out and get a move on.
They needed to get a move on in 2016. Now they are almost certainly going to go bust and shut down. This is a major, major disaster for European industry and European taxpayers.
Most Brexiters can’t afford car insurance. As in the US, the rich manipulated the poor to produce the destruction of the middle class.
Chinese companies need to share technology between them. How much sharing of tech are european companies doing?
Think people are realising that European premium brands just offer, especially for the EV versions, no value for money, especially with the depreciation. An EV version of the E class or 5 Series is north of £70k now for starters. Thats madness. Chinese, and Koreans, far cheaper and quality getting better.
Had the same issue in the 80s and 90s from Japanese brands - however it did not stop people buying BMWs and Mercedes.
Chinese EVs are beginning to establish a real presence in the UK market and it's quite likely they will soon dominate it. New manufacturers seem to be appearing almost on a weekly basis: BYD, GWM, Omoda, Ora, MG, NIO etc.

By all accounts they are of reasonable quality, offer a variety of styles and types and are competitive on price and performance with established suppliers like VW.

Apparently, it takes European manufacturers 3 years to develop a new model, whilst the Chinese can do it in one.

As a putative buyer I worry about some of these makes withdrawing from what might become an over-supplied market, crashing resale values and throttling access to servicing and spares (remember the Yugos, which were Fiats made in Serbia?).

Also, since battery technology is advancing rapidly and the Chinese can react so rapidly, your shiny new EV may have been superseded by a better one before it goes for its first service.
Since UK no longer makes cars and is not in EU, simply follow the Norwegians and enjoy a lower cost transition tariff-free.
(Edited)
The UK makes a lot of cars - just not many by UK owned companies. In 2024, the UK is expected to produce around 1.04 million cars and light vans, with the potential to exceed 1.2 million units by the end of the decade.
I have had an MG4 for over a year now. The car is not perfect but it is value for money, especially as it came with 0% interest financing. The only comparable car maker in Europe for EVs in my opinion is Renault.
I'm surprised this article was so poorly researched. EU and US car makers were required to enter into JVs in order to sell their products in China. So they were essentially forced to teach Chinese firms how to make cars. And I'm sure a lot of intellectual property was acquired (legally and illegally) by those Chinese firms (remember that IP is not just tangible IP like patents but also intangible IP like know-how) which they are now using to good effect. In time Chinese firms will get better, just as the Japanese and Korean manufacturers did, although I expect this to be much faster with such Chinese firms given the IP transfer.

These cars, however, are not for sale in the US, and likely never will be. The US may, by accident, have saved its industry in the long run (if they don't muck it up all by themselves) and it's no wonder EU firms continue to focus on making more and more cars in the US.
The US car industry will go down the road of the Soviet car industry in the long run if it hides behind gov protection from Chinese competition. It’ll survive as long as the protections are in place, but uncompetitive and inefficient, with subpar products at much higher costs paid for by American consumers. And let’s not pretend US gov doesn’t support the domestic car industry as much as the Chinese do - what happened to GM in ‘08 again?
(Edited)
Will it? Did the same when Japanese competition heated up in the 80s and survived and then thrived.
Many western companies embrace mantras like "proudly found elsewhere" or are happy to copy something that works better. This approach is adopted keenly by emerging nations and why not, it is the way the world works. We need to compete not spend our days whingeing.
He added that the touchscreens so crucial to electric cars were far slicker in Chinese models than, say, VW’s.
The shift to touchscreen controls is happening at the same time as the shift to electric drivetrains. The two are completely independent and unconnected.

You can have an ICE car with entirely touchscreen controls. You can have an electric car with traditional knobs and buttons. The two changes are not related.

There are a number of other technological changes in car making also happening at the same time. For instance, 100% automation on the production line, single information architecture on one piece of silicon rather than numerous ECUs and the addition of lots of autonomous, electronic driving aids and safety features.

Any of these could have happened separately. All of them have happened at once. The European majors were behind on ALL OF THEM because they failed or refused to pioneer and invest in new things.

Now they will all go into insolvency and get shut down.

This was an actual choice made by the senior management who were too lazy, arrogant and greedy to spend any money on innovation and wanted their short term salaries and benefits.
I want an electric car with a petrol driven control panel.
Yeah, it seems like a bit of a retrograde step IMHO. Tactile buttons seem like a much better option. Screen is just a distraction from driving.
Old style controls with large knobs and buttons also give the ability to operate the controls in winter while wearing gloves.
I prefer my "Hi BYD" voice control :)
Make money by selling fossils to Europeans
Use their money to make China rich buying their meh looking EVs
Cool story, now do that trick we saw before. You want to sell your cars? Only if you build plants on a 49:51 JVs unfavorable to you with complete technology transfers.
I think that horse may have bolted
Just pass a law making it so. Then Chinese car manufacturers can build factories in Europe and the USA to manufacture their cars, taking 49% ownership with a European or USA JV partner taking 51%. China showed the world that it is a winning way of doing business, so why not?
It could happen but there'll be job losses either way. China offered a massive domestic market and economic growth alongside state backing decades ago. The Chinese have a lead in EVs but JVs with European Car companies would probably cost them their lead. The big 4 Auto SOEs of China were really bad back then and even now are not at the cutting edge. Throw in continental politics and job guarantees and I don't see it happening.
My sister has a small MG electric SUV, it's about 18 months old and has had to be returned to the dealer on a truck three times now
But the touchscreen…!
That can be said for any car that turns out to be a lemon. That’s been going on for decades
The build quality of much of what China produces isn’t great, with obvious exceptions such as Foxconn. Equally, the local dealer network will be wholly unsupervised for many of the newly introduced marques & resale values aren’t expected to be particularly strong. (There have been a few instances of block sales at List minus 50% simply to shift unsold new stock). But Joe Public will buy, in volume, & we’ll need to wait a couple of years to find out how successful these vehicles are. But I’d hold off buying until then.
(Edited)

Let The Competition Begin !!!!

We want better cars !!!!

European car companies must now make better cars or be forced out of business.

It's unfortunate, of course, if all of the batteries and electronics in European electric cars must now be made in China.

But hey, somebody needs to control the world and own all of the factories. Right?

Isn't that how an economic system is supposed to work?

Somebody needs to have all of the money.

It might as well be those nice Chinese Communists, whose kind, gentle and friendly policemen now patrol the streets in Hungary........

Has anybody in Brussels considered that Communism, with Chinese characteristics, might just be a new form of 21st century monopoly.
(Edited)
An important factor here is that Norway does not produce cars, so all cars are imported. Market shares should thus reflect consumer preferences and cost/quality considerations. By the way, Hunday (Korean) is also doing well in Norway
how are VW group EV faring in Norway?
Lucid Motors have a showroom on Karl Johansgate, and Lotus have one a few steps away on a side street
Lotus are also Chinese.
Owned by the Chinese, but based in Norfolk.

absolutely irrelevant but wow are those big, electric, Lotus SUVs ugly ..... almost crashed the ICE wondering about Elans, Elises and Esprits ..... oh well
Following what the people are buying, and the people are buying big heavy SUVs. I never thought I’d see Ferrari or Lamborghini make an SUV but here we are
Though provoking, but question the comment on the cars being better. My car club has replaced its fleet with Chinese EVs (MG) and they feel cheap and poorly designed. Based on the experience of using them i wouldn't drive them. The other criticism i'd level is that they are large and bulky. There's still scope for European manufacturers to outperform on design for a European consumer but the window will shut fast, if you get used to cheap kit and it is cheap you will soon acclimatise. The largest hole in the article is does Europe need all these cars? What are the economics arguments for fewer vehicles and mult-modal mix, where do autonomous pods fit in. Given most cars spend most time parked could the future not be more premium cars better utilised given the scarcity of raw materials that goes into them? There's a growing sector in the UK of retrofitting batteries to classic cars, what are the prospects there?
The cost of such retrofits is a minimum of £40k, so likely to remain a niche pursuit
It's a Kodak moment for European automotive manufacturers
If Mercedes can’t even produce a reliable satnav system that doesn’t direct you down roads that have been closed for years/ doesn’t recognise which side of a dual carriageway the destination is on, then how can they come with the electronics needed for leading electric vehicles?

And if you can’t manage to do it yourself guys, do what the Chineses did in so many areas- copy and improve.
The technology in many cases is similar to mobiles. They don't need to invent it again. Stop penny pinching and stick some better processors in there and use the mobile software.
AppleCar is available
They are good with electronics though look at how they designed the diesel cars to recognise when they were the emissions were being tested to falsify the output.
I was given a Mercedes rental while my car was being repaired. The USB C port for connecting my phone (no wireless connection, of course) was damaged, so I was forced to use the Mercedes OEM satnav. It was by far the worst I have ever used - worse than the TomTom I used 15 years ago. They really have to get their act together
Naive Norwegians. All those cars are collecting data and spying on you.
You mean unlike other cars? Look up about the Land Rover Discovery Anglesey murder conviction.
Right, but the data is contained within the high quality laws and regulatory frameworks of European regions.

China is the Wild West and has no such qualms about (ab)using your data. Plus they are unfortunately communist and so the notion you can just trust them is quite insane.
high quality laws and regulatory frameworks of European regions.
hahahahah yeah yeah
Im entirely happy to have drug dealing psychopaths with cross bows grassed up by their Land Rover.
so is pretty much every device connected to the internet.
Ykes, could be new weapon in west- east tension, Chinese following my movements are bored into a state of depression! Bill goes to cottage, returns to city, must be Canadian summer, bills car goes to Florida must be Canadian winter. Chinese spy takes anti-depressants!
Tesla takes all your date, records sounds in the vehicle and pictures all around. So does your TV.
leapfrog to personal aviation
Most people out there are not capable of controlling a vehicle that only moves in two dimensions. Adding a third into the mix would be disastrous.
Flying cars are easier to automate. There are more ways to avoid each other in 3D.
You do know that he is no longer NATO secretary general, right?
Tesla will also suffer - their cars seem bland (especially the interiors) and they no longer have the cool factor.
Tesla is run by a maverick, but the cars are fine and better than the competition in some areas.
Maverick? You got the last four letters right.
No mention of Geely
"Volvo, based in Sweden but owned by the China’s Geely, is not far behind that duo in fourth place"
(Edited)
1. Chinese brands already have around 11% share of the European EV market.
2. Nio is one of the earliest Chinese pure EV brands
3. China is not dumping. If anything, it is price gouging. The average EV unit price in EU is double that in the domestic Chinese market. In the case of SAIC, a 300% mark-up.
From my AI friend:

"Chinese car brands have been growing in the UK market, with their share of the private market increasing from around 3% in 2019 to around 17% in Q3 2023."
Do you have a source for that? I find that very hard to believe.
17% of all cars sold, or 17% of electric cars sold?
One needs to look at the life span of a Chinese NEV, the resale value, and maintenance costs before concluding that the Chinese NEVs are comparable to western offerings and have lower emissions. The extant research has firm results on that.
Link 1 presents a study that examines "the NEVs' age and distribution based on the national representative China Compulsory Traffic Accident Liability Insurance for Motor Vehicles (CTALI) database from 2018 to 2020." The finding are the "average lifespan of battery electric vehicles in China is much lower than conventional vehicles... Lower average lifespan of battery electric vehicles significantly increases its life cycle CO2 emission per kilometer."
Link 2 similarly reports that China has made eligibility for scrapping after 6 years. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969722011949
Lifespan of NEVs is less than half that of fuel vehicles, according to China's official trade-in measures https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20240821PD208/china-nev-ev-market-demand.html
What makes you think that the Chinese NEVs in the sample discussed in your link have any similarity with the cars that China is now exporting to Europe ?
All NIO EVs are battery swapable. Meaning you don' t need to charge your battery if it is running low. All you have to do is to drive to the nearest swapping stations which NIO has installed in many key locations in Scandinavia, Germany, Nethlerlands etc. Swapping your low battery to a fully charged battery only take less than 3 minutes. There is no concern on battery degradation or lifespan of your battery vehiches. NIO's EV brands have won many car industry accolades including JD Power awards. NIO is a luxury brands so it is expensive and outsell Mercedes Benz, Audi and BMW in China. The cheapest model is ET5 sedan (around US$45K) which is one of their best selling models in China as well. They have a full range of SUV which their high end model is ES8 which start around $70K.

Their average driving range in all of their models depending on whether you select 75 kwh or 100 kwh battery power pack ranges from 415km to 580km. Very impressive.

NIO just launched a mass market model that will sell around $30K. This model is also battery swappable.
The batteries are being used nonetheless, albeit in a different auto so it changes nothing in terms of life span.. An engineer's perspective would be that moving batteries, a large part of the car's weight, is hazardous, capital as well as labor intensive. In the US, labor costs are ridiculously high and government's subsidies will almost certainly be needed. Here is an article that discusses pros and cons.
For NIO, they have business model where you don't have to buy the battery. You can subscribe to their 'Battery as a Service' or BaaS. You buy the car without the battery and you subscribe to battery pack separately. Any future battery upgrade you get it automatically without additional fee.

Have you seen the battery swap station of NIO. If not, there are tons of youTube videos showing how efficient and quick the swap station handle the change. NIO is the only EV brand doing swap. However, it will soon become standard for all EV manufacturers as the Chinese government is looking to make it a standard feature for all EVs. As of today, over 6 OEMs has signed up to adopt NIO's battery swap standards.
The Chinese cars sold in China are not the same as the Chinese cars sold in Europe. There's a 25-50% cost difference depending on models which is mainly due to safety and standards that apply in Europe and are a lot less stringent in China.

So the Chinese brands may or may not price gouge, but comparing retail price here and there of the same model is flawed as it is not the same model even if it may be called the same.
Euro-NCAP and C-NCAP standards are very similar. On what basis do you make the claim that Chinese standards are much lower?

previous reporting in FT.
As to your (3), the cars sold in China are just not the same as the ones sold in Europe, even if the manufacturer and model name are the same.

Europe applies much higher safety standards and much more rigid design criteria for crashworthiness and for electronic secondary safety features like ABS and AEB. The cars sold in Europe cost much more to build.
There are minimal differences between Euro-NCAP and C-NCAP and the latter is at least as stringent on ABS and AEB.

Look great in year 1. Passable in year 2. Sell before end of year 3. Don’t expect any residuals. Good luck.
yes. in the coming bloodbath software based cars are going to stop working if the company goes under - so choose wisely...
So lease rather than buy. That is what most customers are doing these days. It’s not only the Chinese cars that are engineered to just last for the three year warranty.
Someone somewhere picks up the bill though.
Plenty of manufacturers give a longer warranty than just three years.
Buy European - .
Why? They are amongst the most unreliable cars out there. They are selling solely on image and past glories.
After the emission cheating scandal? nope. No longer trust them.
You do realise the Chinese market is the Wild West, right?

It’s actually more free market capitalism than the US. Anything goes. Can you imagine purposefully poisoning baby milk powder in the US? No, of course not. It happened in China. Bulk out profits, no regulatory testing of the product, babies died.

Be careful what you wish for.
what does that even mean? buy european so they can spend billions partnering with chinese/us companies in some futile effort to cling to the golden age? might as well cut the middle man and buy direct from tesla or china.
Buy European to keep your fellow citizens employed, not have money flow to a country trying to dominate the world, and keep Europe's economy afloat.
Europe dominated the world didn't they? Empires come and go. Colonialism until only 60 years ago. So much wealth in Europe came from outside
Protectionism really just an expensive/inefficient way to deliver welfare. Usually much better to reallocate labour to more competitive industries, and Europe does still have a few.
The nice bit about the UK not having any domestic car manufacturers is that we get to enjoy all these Chinese tax payers subsidies
Assuming they think the market is sizeable enough to warrant a RHD version.
I think it would be when you include Japan & Australia.
Exactly, about 1/3 of the world's population drives on the left
And India.
India, Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Southern Africa.
…..and Pakistan
Tuvalu, Naura, Isle of Mann.
They’ll make it for 1.4 Bn people in India and then send it to the rest of the RHD countries

Far more attractive market where legacy attitudes and brands are not entrenched
Chinese car brands have been growing in the UK market, with their share of the private market increasing from around 3% in 2019 to around 17% in Q3 2023.
I really don't think 17% is at all likely. Look at the SMMT data.

Even if you count Lotus, Volvo and Tesla as Chinese.
(Edited)
That link doesn't give a breakdown by brand??

My source was Google AI - try it yourself.
(Edited)
Not only absence of any domestic car manufacturing and presence of excess electricity but also being outside the EU...
Norway has also developed an impressive EV charging system across the country.
and good public charging infrastructure to support the number of EV: the EU is lacking on that
No. The EU is not lacking public electric car charging points. Some Member States are a bit behind, but as a whole there is plenty.

In any case, public chargers are mainly a convenience for occasional long trips. Almost all electric cars are almost always charged at home, overnight. You get to use cheap, discounted electricity and your car is at home for five or six times the number of hours of charging you need.
If China’s car industry receives subsidies similar to those applied to its solar panel sector ...
They actually do, According to the WSJ article (a truly impressive study), China spends nearly 5% of its national income on subsidies and 99% of the publicly listed firms report subsidies in their annual reports. Subsidies are but a small part as they also have free/cheap land, tax holidays or low taxes, low interest loans from state controlled banks, dirt cheap energy, steel, other RM, and capital from state controlled firms that never turn a profit (they also receive subsidies). They also get export assistance and logistical support from the government.
Here is a sobering piece of information: "Chinese battery maker Contemporary Amperex Technology, or CATL, in 2023 reported the largest subsidies of that year, totaling 5.7 billion yuan, equivalent to around $790 million." SAIC reported $560 million of subsidies in 2023 alone. Cheap loans are estimated to transfer more value to the firms than subsidies do.
Anyway, I highly recommend reading the article below to dispel any starry-eyed notions of free trade one may entertain.
And in the meantime the EU apply fines for billions …
They are underachievers. Given the size of Chinese subsidies (direct or indirect), they should be thinking in trillions :-)
"Russia fines Google more money than there is in entire world"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxvnwkl5kgo
Not the only area in which Russia appears to be a country suffering from severe delusions.
They still pay more in taxes than they get in subsidy. No state can survive if it provides more subsidies than it gets in taxes.
Priming the pump to dominate a global market, with profits coming back later?
Don't forget the barriers to entry for foreign firms.
Norway is a tiny country, no population, and excess energy/electricity generation. The rest of Europe is effectively the opposite.
(Edited)
Norway has a population about the size of Denmark's, Ireland's, or the three Baltic states combined. Or, if you prefer, a population about the same as Minnesota or Colorado.

Not large, but not tiny. And physically, it's a big country - 50% bigger than the UK.

So the fact that Norwegians are happily driving electric cars without "range anxiety" suggests that other European countries could and should be doing the same. Doing so will eliminate hundreds of billions-worth of oil imports into Europe. The side of the EV story we never seem to hear about.
Norway has developed an impressive EV charging system network across the country too, which helps.
But only for occasional long journeys, since almost all electric cars are almost always charged at home, overnight.
I was there earlier this year. The number of electric cars is impressive but friends told me that if they need to go any distance they fly or hire an ICE. Also, the low population density means that it's possible for many people to have charging points at home making for affordable running costs. That isn't the case elsewhere in Europe.
Norway is a tiny country

Yes, it is only a bit larger than Italy, Poland or the UK....
With 5.5m people…
I think that is the 'no population' part of the post I replied to.
(Edited)
Which is less than half of London
🤦‍♂️
Wonder what Stoltenberg advise would be, considering national security.
Nothing, because he's a hypocrite.
Really. He is a former Norwegian politician, PM and head of NATO. Now in charge of the MSC henceforth. So he may have a view of Chinese EV or not, to date.
Of course heavily impacted by Norway not having any of its own car manufacturers
Not really?
Strange comment
(Edited)
The main explanation was the ability to just excempt EVs from astronomical taxes and duties for cars which is a lot easier than introducing subsidies.
The article was about Chinese companies starting to see real success in the Norwegian (EV) market, as a harbinger for other countries, not the success of EVs generally in Norway (which your comment relates to)
(Edited)
My point is that the huge relative attractiveness of EVs in Norway has opened up for pure EV players like the Chinese (and Tesla) and is the main reason for their large market share. If other countries adapt similar incentives (already knowing the EU will make it more difficult for the Chinese), I expect they could have made the same inroads despite some potential domestic bias.
My point is: there is no (domestic) Fiat, BMW, Renault in Norway, so "let’s buy whatever" (maybe even on objective grounds). Those countries with domestic car manufacturers won’t be so "open" - "bias" perhaps somewhat (whatever you mean by that), but patriotism, government support, related manufacturing jobs etc., all of which will count for a lot in my opinion. The journalist should have at least incorporated that reality into the story.
For years now I have heard of complaints that the in car software of VW is outdated, surely this should be a relatively easy thing to fix?
Quite the opposite. It’s an enormous challenge for the German manufacturers in particular.
Porsche Macan EV launch was delayed about 2 years because of software problems.
Mercedes are very glichy, the tech is simply not properly prepared.
And as nowadays software is one of the differentiators …
because software is function(s), not just eye candy.
I have met SW people from the German car industry. The individual programmers were often excellent, but management was pretty bad.
we had a German supplier for a very niche specific solution: atrocious conception/architecture, still works in progress despite on the eve of deployment...
you can only do software well 1) if you get software experience is paramount, not second fiddle to automotive 2) you have a hardware platform that is easy to build on - german car companies dont make any of the parts, suppliers do - and all the parts have different integrations.... meanwhile an upstart can dictate the hardware platform, having one interface for everything - so then free to focus on the software...
They've given up and outsourced to Rivian https://www.ft.com/content/b861e949-76a2-4782-9c74-947dfb56b41a
EU employs 12 million in automotive, 6% of all employment.A 70% drop in domestic production would be extremely painful.
But the industry executives preferred drawing good bonuses on top of good profits from dead ICE technology over the past five years, thus effectively ensuring that the whole European car industry would die.

The extreme bias towards the short term in modern capitalism is a very big problem for the West. Nobody seems to have learnt anything from watching Kodak go under, victim to the new technology which it had itself pioneered.
Innovator's dilemma (Clayton Christensen)
Difficult to switch focus when rewards from the old business are good.
and
It's a different business. Different Key drivers and need different organisation/ resource allocation.
Probably not profitable and the stakeholders including the management might not like that.
Voyah?
And all this has been proudly achieved with regulations, taxes, fines and subsidies
No it has achieved it by combining brutal statism with brutal capitalism. Capitalists should be celebrating the astounding rise of the Chinese automobile industry as an achievement of capitalism but because it doesn’t fit their pro-billionaire propaganda small state laissez-faire version they won’t accept it.

The most successful periods of western capitalism involved an interventionist state too. The neoliberal version we’ve been led to believe is the purest form is a perversion that only ever benefited vested interests (and China btw!)
Correct. Misguided ‘free market’ fundamentalism has supported China’s rise to economic superpower. Seeking short term gains by manufacturing in China has (surprise, surprise) destroyed manufacturing and industrial base in the west. How dumb can you get.
But hey a few stockholders got richer.
“When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract.”

Lenin