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I want to design a hybrid relay for a three phase motor. The rating is 230VAC L-N @20A. In order to get a better idea, I ordered this hybrid motor starter.

It is also a 3 phase hybrid motor starter with used two TRIACs and 4 × DPDT relays. It has left and right motor rotation option and needs external 24 VDC to operate.

What I want to ask is if someone can help me reverse engineer this a bit.

ELR H5-IES-PT- 24DC/500AC-9-P - PCB.

The above image is of the PCB board of the relay which I ordered, basically the inner circuitry of Phoenix Contact hybrid motor starter.

Let us just focus on the power part and not the logic.

As you can see in the image attached the the right most part has two pairs of 3-pin connectors used for L1; L2 and L3 and U; V and W. The white parts are the relays which are by Phoenix Contact and two black T2550-12G TRIACs.

Red components are MOVs and blue ones are the Y safety capacitors.

The two black-yellow components must be transformers. (I am not sure because the part number mentioned has no information available on the Internet, maybe they are Phoenix Connect internal numbers and the parts are not for sale.) Same also goes for the part 9159523 AC-098 ACUWA 2218.

Now can someone help understand how this circuit works?

My questions are:

  1. Why only two TRIACS are present and not three for each phase?
  2. Why there are four relays?
  3. Are the transformers used as gate drivers here because I see no optocoupler?
  4. How is zero cross detected for TRIACS and how do we turn them on and off on the right time without driver/optocoupler?

Thank you in advance for your time and help.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ st.com/resource/en/application_note/… \$\endgroup\$ Commented 13 hours ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ What is the photograph of? \$\endgroup\$ Commented 13 hours ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Andyaka phoenixcontact.com/en-de/products/… It is the inside of this \$\endgroup\$ Commented 13 hours ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ @G36 Thanks alot for the article, I will go through this and see what i can understand \$\endgroup\$ Commented 12 hours ago
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    \$\begingroup\$ Are you able to reverse engineer a schematic from the PCB? As for "Why there are 4 relays?" that might be answered from a reversed engineered schematic. The datasheet mentions a safety enable input, and so mechanical relays might have been selected as part of the safety chain. What functional safety standard(s) does your design for a "hybrid relay for a three phase motor" need to meet? \$\endgroup\$ Commented 12 hours ago

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These are my interpretations of the datasheet db_en_elr_h5_ies_pt_p_107917_en_03.pdf (618 kB) on the download page and your photograph. The answers are only possibilities that occur to me and may be wrong!:

  1. Why only two TRIACS are present and not three for each phase?

You can control a single-phase (2-wire) circuit with only one switch. You can control a three-phase (3-wire) circuit with only two switches. This will simplify the circuit, reduce cost and improve reliability.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

Figure 1. Opening SW1 and SW2 will de-energise the motor (although it will remain live).

  1. Why there are four relays?

One of them is for the error output signal.

hybrid relay block diagram

Figure 2. Block diagram showing error relay.

Only three more to figure out! I suspect that they may be safety related. See if they follow the pattern outlined in my answer to https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/240352/73158.

  1. Are the transformers used as gate drivers here because I see no optocoupler?

It seems unlikely to me. (a) They're too big for a pulse transformer. (b) There seems to be a single-turn winding on them which suggests something more like a current transformer. Again, only two phases would need to be monitored to get the complete picture.

Post a photo of the back of the board but mirror it horizontally to make it easy for us to correlate stuff on the front and back.

  1. How is zero cross detected for TRIACS and how do we turn them on and off on the right time without driver/optocoupler?

enter image description here

Figure 3. (1) to (4) may be what you're looking for as these 4-terminal devices straddle the no-man's-land isolation barrier (marked in light green). Optos (5) to (7) don't.

I can't make out from the photo which direction they're feeding. You might be able to determine by inspection.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I can see why you think the question might get closed, but as per How do we feel about placeholder answers to indicate we are working on an answer? "Placeholders that don't contain any kind of actual answer are noise and are subject to deletion." \$\endgroup\$ Commented 12 hours ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ How's it looking now, @ChesterGillon? (Surely I have some credibility with a rep of > 187k?) I've had questions closed while most of the way through a comprehensive answer. \$\endgroup\$ Commented 11 hours ago
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    \$\begingroup\$ Looks OK to me so far. I added my comment, and took no other action, since wasn't sure if adding posting a placeholder to get an answer in even if the question gets closed was seen as "cheating" or not. \$\endgroup\$ Commented 11 hours ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks, @Chester. I'm not trying to cheat but obviously readers differ in opinion on whether a question is valid or not. This question was going to take some time so I was protecting my investment as it had one close vote already. Hopefully my answer will be useful to others apart from the OP. \$\endgroup\$ Commented 11 hours ago

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