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RFK Jr. Overhauls CDC Vaccine Language on Autism Claims; White House Cancels Healthcare Proposal Rollout; Russian Air Raids Kill Six in Kyiv Overnight. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I would encourage people to maybe dress a little better, which encourages us to maybe behave all a little better. Let's try not to wear slippers and pajamas as we come to the airport.

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: If you are watching this from the airport or about to head there, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy wants you to dress better this Thanksgiving. And if you're in your leggings or a suit, either way, it's going to be extra busy. The FAA predicts this week will be the busiest travel period in 15 years. Today, more than 52,000 flights still scheduled.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN This Morning. It's half past the hour, and here's what's happening right now.

The cases against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James have been dismissed.

[06:35:00]

A federal judge ruled the charges were brought by a prosecutor who had been unlawfully appointed. Interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan was appointed by the president after he forced out his initial pick, who resisted indicting Comey and James. The White House says the Justice Department will appeal the decision very soon.

And the Reverend Jesse Jackson has been released from the hospital. That's according to the Rainbow Push Coalition. The civil rights leader was put in the ICU earlier this month, which sources said was to help manage his blood pressure. He was also under observation for progressive supranuclear palsy. A source tells CNN, he's back home.

And temple staff in Thailand got a huge shock when they heard a knock come from inside a coffin. The woman inside who was brought in for cremation was actually alive. The A.P. reports that her brother who brought her in said she had been bedridden for two years and appeared to have stopped breathing. So, he placed her in a coffin and drove her 300 miles to the temple. So, the temple was explaining how to get a death certificate when they heard a knock. The woman was taken to the hospital.

That's nightmare fuel. I'm going to be honest with you. But I'm going to move on to the news because Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been on a mission to remake the U.S. public health system in his own image and his latest move and overhaul of the CDC's language on its website about vaccines. It now that the claim vaccines do not cause autism is not evidence-based, and that a link between vaccines and autism cannot be ruled out.

So, you've got mainstream medical professionals who are pretty clear about this, and have been for years, that there's no link between vaccines and autism. So, we're going to talk about why Kennedy believes that he does. A new Atlantic piece digs into that and how Kennedy's beliefs have become one of the most important drivers in healthcare policy today.

Michael Scherer a staff writer at The Atlantic. He joins the chat now. Welcome, Michael.

MICHAEL SCHERER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, thanks for having me.

CORNISH: So, I wanted to talk to you because Kennedy went from being an outsider, not just to the establishment, but to Trump world totally right to someone who has navigated this cabinet and the Trump White House, it appears very well. Am I misreading that?

SCHERER: No, you're reading it right. There's a lot of chaos at HHS. So, it's not that his administration has been without flaws, but if you go to the White House and talk to senior people, they, they all have positive things to say about Bobby. He's been really good at navigating the other cabinet members. He's also been very close with Trump. He continues to talk to him regularly. He'd been very close with Susie Wiles. And they're looking forward to next year's midterm elections because they believe that this MAHA movement he's nurturing is a way of peeling Democrats away in the midterms.

And so I think you're going to see Bobby turned into sort of a political asset again next year, like he was.

CORNISH: Being out there talking and really -- but I noticed that Trump, for instance, like jumped on the Tylenol thing, right? Like he's sort of at his side. Does he believe in the same health ideas as Kennedy?

SCHERER: Well, so I report my piece. The Tylenol example is an interesting one. When Kennedy came to Trump initially about that Tylenol study, he said, we have to be nuanced about this. We have to be careful. You know, there could be a correlation between Tylenol and autism. It's not a proven correlation. It's not causation yet. And we know that high fevers in pregnant women can cause miscarriages and other bad results. So, he wanted it to be nuanced. Trump said to him, we should just tweet it out right now. And Kennedy actually pulled him back.

And then when they do the press conference several weeks later, the actual things that Kennedy and Marty Makary at the FDA put forward were nuanced and then Trump stepped on all of it and said, just don't take Tylenol, Tylenol is bad for you, which was not the medical message even from the administration at that point.

CORNISH: We've been talking so much about how the administration feels about him. I want to talk about Congress because they had to approve him, and some people sort of feel like they maybe have a little buyer's remorse. This is what Bill Cassidy said when he was asked about the efficacy of vaccine claims, whether he actually just regrets voting for RFK.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Did you give RFK Jr. too much credit? What are you going to do now to push back against this?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Well first I'm not minimizing these changes, they are important, because you need to send the consistent signal that vaccines are safe. I'll just say that. And, again, President Trump agrees that vaccines are safe and important and that should not be undermined.

TAPPER: You don't seem willing to criticize him by name at all unlike members of his family.

CASSIDY: So, Jake, clearly, this conversation, you want me to be on the record saying something negative.

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CORNISH: Help me translate.

SCHERER: Yes, that was a interesting exchange. I'll translate it. Bill Cassidy is up for reelection next year, and, secondarily, he's trying to triangulate. He has a direct relationship with Trump. He's giving Trump advice on vaccines. If he goes after Kennedy publicly, then he undermines his own standing with the president.

And so his game right now, and behind the scenes, the tensions between Cassidy and Kennedy are difficult to overstate. They are really at loggerheads. They have very tense relationship. They text and talk often, but it's a pretty combative behind-the-scenes relationship. But in public, Cassidy has calculated that the best way he can push forward his agenda here on vaccines is not to take Kennedy on publicly but to do it privately with the president and to try and sort of work both of them.

Trump goes back and forth on vaccines. Sometimes he's, you know, very concerned about it. But other times he says, no, we want vaccines. I get vaccinated. He is very proud of the COVID shots.

CORNISH: Okay. I want to add something else from your story, you guys, and bring you in because there's another topic I want to cover, but you wrote in this, that essential premise of Kennedy's leadership at HHS is that modern science is infected with bias that costs lives, that the regulatory agencies have been captured by industry, and that medical journals are corrupted by the need to turn a profit.

The reason why I want to bring this up is because of this conversation about health insurance and the ACA subsidies, right? So, basically, the costs are about to skyrocket for millions of you out there watching, Congress running out of time to fix it. And, originally, these Affordable Care Act subsidies were supposed to help offset these premiums that were set to expire at the end of the year. That could mean more than double the monthly cost for people who enrolled in 2026.

So, the White House has been -- people have been asking, what's the Republican plan? How are you going to address this crisis? And yet it's sort of on hold, as CNN learned that they were going to like roll out a big thing. That's been scrapped. Meanwhile, you've got Republican allies and lawmakers going against the idea.

But what I noticed is that what they've been talking about is, should we give subsidies money directly to people who we trust, or the insurance companies, who we do not, right? Like that seems to be -- and it's sort of interesting hearing Republicans make this argument about the private market.

SCHERER: Well, and to understand Kennedy, to understand this conversation, you have to understand that this is not happening in a vacuum. Seven in ten Americans, if you ask the question, is the health system, the insurance system, the pharmaceutical system basically rigged to profit big business, or is it out there to make you healthier, they will say it's rigged to profit big business. That's a bipartisan view.

And so what Republicans are trying to do is something they've tried to do before, which is to say, we give people health savings accounts, they can directly pay for services. We take away the 20 percent or 15 percent cut that insurance companies take out of this money. The downside to that, obviously, in the Democratic pushback is that, you know, you're not going to get the same level of service and you're going to run out of money much quicker.

CORNISH: Gabby, can you talk about how that's complicated things for Republicans who, coming out of this government shutdown, are being asked questions about healthcare?

GABBY BIRENBAUM, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE TEXAS TRIBUNE: Yes, I mean, this is a huge issue in Texas where I cover, right? Texas is one of ten states that never expanded Medicaid. They've have an enormous, ACA population. There's real sort of political incentive for people because almost 4 million Texans are ACA enrollees. And yet when you talk to Republicans in Texas, they feel pretty ideological about this, right? They don't support just sort of, generally speaking, subsidies that allow people to have $0 premiums.

And I think if you squint, right, this is one issue where maybe the, you know, Congressional GOP and Trump have daylight between them. And we've seen, I think recently with tariff rebate checks with Epstein. Maybe some of that daylight is becoming, you know, a little more relevant.

CORNISH: Your list is coming off the list from Marjorie Taylor Greene that she was exiting Congress.

Ashley, this one's for you. Here's what Greene had to say. I just want to play a little bit of her announcement to remind people.

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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I raged against my own speaker and my own party for refusing to proactively work diligently to pass the plan to save Americans' healthcare and protect Americans from outrageous, overpriced, and unaffordable health insurance policies. The House should have been in session, working every day to fix this disaster.

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CORNISH: I have heard some Republicans say, look, Republican voters don't care about this in a primary and in a general, where are they going to go? Do you think that Marjorie Taylor Greene is right, that like, hey, this is something you guys should have fixed and it's a problem for the Republican Party?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: I think it is a problem, and I think the Democrats did do a really good job during the shutdown tying us to the issue. I mean, listen, do I think that -- remember that we are at this level because of COVID, and obviously COVID has gone away, but a lot of people depend on it and that's the issue.

A lot of Democrats actually have been waiting for the president to have a plan, which I think from the beginning he was very -- everyone was like, we're not going to do it around the shutdown, and that was a whole other reason.

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However, the president's plan that came out yesterday didn't address a really important issue that's going to be important to Republicans, and that's the Hyde Amendment, which does this allow federal money to be used for abortion.

CORNISH: Right.

DAVIS: And then it always comes up when they start talking about this.

CORNISH: Absolutely. I think it's a good start. I want to give the last minute to you because I think that every time they delay putting something out, like a Democratic consultant gets their wings, like, you know what I mean, like is this just a thing you feel like you can really grind on in an era where RFK has plenty of purchase with voters on issues of healthcare in these very sort of big, high level ways.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, but I don't know that they do. When it comes to the issue of credibility on healthcare, and this is where I think Democrats have a huge advantage, Democrats have -- it's one of the biggest issues that Democrats have a huge advantage on.

And when you look at what RFK Jr. is saying, you know, he's speaking to, I think, a crowd that I don't think is going to be a crowd that's going to help the Republicans in the midterm elections because they're with them already. So, when you go into the midterm elections and you look at, okay, which party has credibility on healthcare, you have Democrats, who have been fighting for the ACA and the subsidies, and Republicans just saying, oh, we're going to come out with a plan, oh, no, it's this, oh, no, it's that, we don't want to cover people, that's going to help Democrats in the sort of big picture when going into the midterms.

CORNISH: And what people are talking about is money, not the science, right, Michael? And that's the thing we all, I think, that took a big hit after the pandemic.

Michael Scherer, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. Thanks for coming in. And if any of you miss any of that conversation, our chat with Michael, just know we're a podcast.

You can catch up with us. You can share it. Scan the Q.R. code right now to find it. CNN This Morning is available anywhere you get your podcast.

And next on CNN, we're going to talk about how DOGE just got DOGEd. The agency tried to take a chainsaw to the government. Did it work?

Plus --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to be a defender of Ukraine that's a free country, a democracy, that's being invaded. We should be clear that we're on their side.

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CORNISH: Kyiv under fire again as European allies plan to offer changes to President Trump's peace plan changes in Ukraine's favor.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The European plan that was put -- sent out yesterday was ten times better than our plan, which is embarrassing. But I'm hoping common sense prevails. America is supposed to be the leader of the free world. We're not acting like it right now in this case.

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CORNISH: while the world debates the best way to end the war in Ukraine, the fighting rages on.

Overnight, Russian air raids against Ukraine's capital killed at least six people. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia launched 22 missiles and more than 460 drones in the assault, which damage residential buildings, knocked out power across five regions. The strikes also leveled a warehouse in Kyiv where four of the victims from the attacks were killed. Another stark reminder for those living through it, that the war is still no closer to coming to an end.

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NATALYA PASYCHNYK, KYIV RESIDENT: I don't believe what they say on T.V. unless it will be something good or bad. It seems to me that this is all some kind of circus that is all being done for them and not for us.

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CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this, Ambassador William Taylor, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. Good morning. Thank you for coming in.

WILLIAM TAYLOR, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Thank you for having me.

CORNISH: So, we've been -- there's a lot of fallout from what looked like a kind of chaotic weekend. And I know a long time ago you once described working within a Trump diplomatic circle as a kind of snake bit. So, what do you see in how this is playing out, the Rubio versus the Vance versus the sort of Russia people versus the not?

TAYLOR: So, the original plan that came out last week had such a Russian slant that you had to worry about where it actually came from. And it seemed to be everything that the Russians had wanted. People suggested that the Russians may have written it and given it to Steve Witkoff who then proposed it. But, as you say, over the weekend, there have been more discussions this time with the Ukrainians and the Europeans.

CORNISH: So, did this -- was this a good thing in that it forced everyone back to the table and to work off of something, work off of a draft?

TAYLOR: I think it's a very good thing that people are talking. I think it's a very good thing that the initiative is still there. It's not just status quo. It's not just letting the fight go on. It has taken active measures to talk about it. And we're moving in the right direction toward an agreement, a proposal that has sovereignty for the Ukrainians, has security for the Ukrainians, and that's good for Europe and it's good for the United States.

CORNISH: Now, what do you mean by security? This is one of the big arguments, which is how many troops can Ukraine have? How many troops is Russia okay with? Is there a gray zone? There are a lot of questions there even about NATO status, right? Who will come to defend Ukraine if Russia comes back? What security guarantees are you seeing starting to emerge that do make sense or given Russia's history don't make sense?

TAYLOR: Russia's not going to, like any security guarantees that we or the Europeans give to the Ukrainians. That's given. But they don't get a choice. The Russians don't get a choice in that. The security guarantee for Ukraine needs to come in the first instance from Ukrainian military and we need to support them, equip them, train them, and that kind of business.

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That continues.

The second part of the security guarantee is, as you say, the Europeans who are standing up. Listen, you know, Europeans are talking about putting troops on the ground after the fighting stops, to be sure exactly what you say, that the Russians don't come back. And the Americans, Donald Trump, President Trump has talked about providing air support for that European force on the ground in Ukraine. That's a security guarantee.

Another security -- part of the security guarantee is E.U. membership. That's going to be important for the --

CORNISH: E.U., not NATO, but some kind of membership somewhere.

TAYLOR: NATO's still on the table.

CORNISH: Okay.

TAYLOR: Now it's on the table. In the first, in this kind of bad Russian-oriented, Russian-slanted proposal, NATO was not on the table. It's back on the table in the current proposal.

CORNISH: Okay. So, CNN has learned that the U.S. Army secretary, Steve Driscoll, is actually holding talks with Russian officials in Abu Dhabi. Russian's Foreign Minister Lavrov, I think, has been accusing the U.S. and Ukraine of like twisting up the original plan. He said this just a few moments ago.

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SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If the spirit and letter of Anchorage are lost in the key understandings we have documented, then, of course, the situation will be fundamentally different. But so far, I repeat, no one has officially communicated anything to us.

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TAYLOR: Right, exactly right. And what we said, the Russians are not going to like this.

CORNISH: Yes.

TAYLOR: The Russians don't get a choice about whether Ukraine joins NATO or whether the Europeans put the support into Ukraine after the fighting stops. Lavrov is, of course, angry about this.

CORNISH: Yes.

CARDONA: Can I?

CORNISH: Yes, go ahead.

CARDONA: Ambassador, don't you think that point is going to be the most challenging one because of Trump's tendency to want to acquiesce to anything that Putin wants?

TAYLOR: Maybe, but there's another Trump tendency, which is he wants a deal. And he's going to have -- if he's going to get a deal, he's going to have to put pressure on Lavrov, but in particular on Putin.

DAVIS: What about the -- is it true that Russia feels like they need to come to the table more now than ever because of winter coming? I mean, is that true that they're really hurting from a gas perspective, from a, you know, energy perspective?

TAYLOR: I think the Europeans have supported the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians have hit hard at the Russian energy system as well. The Russians are hitting the Ukrainians well. There's no doubt about that. But the Ukrainians have been able to hit their refinery capacity and they've also been starting to squeeze the revenues that come from Russian sales of oil and gas. And that's having an effect too. All of that is the pressure that we need to get Putin to the table.

CORNISH: All right. You guys, hold on. I know. I know. Well, while I have you, I do have one more thing. We were talking about DOGE, the government -- Office of Government Efficiency. The White House says that it's no longer operates as a centralized group. And this is like eight months ahead of schedule. So, DOGE obviously upended the government, thousands of layoffs, contract cancelations, and that included USAID, right, and international humanitarian assistance.

And while I have you, I wanted to ask about that because we've been talking about hard power go to the table, leverage, security guarantees. People used to argue that USAID and the State Department, these things were about soft power. What's the legacy of DOGE in terms of affecting our power in the world?

TAYLOR: USAID did some great work in Ukraine and other places around the world as well and it's important that we continue to do that somehow. Some of the programs that USAID had been working on are now moved into the State Department, and they're continuing. But that's been a very strong source of our influence. The Chinese are taking advantage of that. The Chinese are recognizing that they can move into some of this soft power that we've kind of given it up at this point.

CORNISH: Now, on this show, we usually ask people what's in their group chat. You very famous that your group chats are very famous for people who may not remember the past. So, I have to ask you, what have you been talking about in your world?

TAYLOR: I have to tell you it's about Ukraine.

CORNISH: Yes.

TAYLOR: Even my family.

CORNISH: No, I figured -- oh, are they asking you? Are they like, Bill, what is it?

TAYLOR: Absolutely. They're saying, what is this with this peace plan, you know? It sounds awfully Russian. You know, my family is very interested in it and other members of the group chat as well.

CORNISH: But what are they watching for? Is it all eyes on Ukraine? Is it all eyes on Kremlin? Is it all eyes on Trump?

TAYLOR: It's really on how the Ukrainians are holding up and continuing to fight, that it is important what President Trump does, and they're kind of marginally encouraged by President Trump's current position. You know, it goes up and down. But the support for Ukraine from this administration, as we talked about earlier, the active engagement, the active engagement is something that we haven't seen before and it continues.

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I do think he's committed to it.

CORNISH: Okay. It's nice to end on a positive note, especially seeing what people in Ukraine are dealing with today and overnight. You guys, thank you so much for speaking with us. I really appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you for waking up with us. The headlines are next.