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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

FBI Wants to Interview DEM Lawmakers in Controversial Video; Interview with Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-AZ); Hegseth Issues Dec.10 deadline for Sen. Kelly Investigation; Bloomberg: Special Envoy Witkoff Advised Russia On How To Pitch Ukraine Peace Deal To Trump; Uncertainty Grips U.S. Attorney's Office In Virginia After Judge Tosses James Comey And Letitia James Cases; American Climber Speaks Out After History-Making Ski Down Mount Everest; Four More Suspects Detained Over Louvre Jewel Heist. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Azul is getting here at the L.A. auto show, wow. People still can't quite believe that Azul survived and the detail people remember is insane or if you come around here, one guy I saw looking at this and oh yes, that's the light that melted, he remembered. His wife said, you know, this was a symbol of survival. It's now a symbol that you can bring stuff back, you can restore. One part that they couldn't find, they eventually found on a warehouse shelf in France. It has been gathering dust for 40 years, that was in Azul -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It's amazing, what an amazing report, the little synched survivor as Nick said. Thank you so much Nick, and thanks so much to all of you. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:45]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, the Trump administration makes a federal case out of six Democratic lawmakers after their message to service members urging them to disobey unlawful orders. What the FBI is up to and why their investigation would be unlike anything ever seen before.

Also tonight, new reporting on the leaked transcript of a stunning call in which the President's top Ukraine envoy tells a senior Putin adviser how Putin can get the best out of the President and concedes he will get much of what he wants in Ukraine.

And later, not many climb Mount Everest. Fewer still, climb it and ski back down, but only one took the hardest route off the mountain and he talks about it tonight.

Good Evening, John Berman here, in for Anderson. Tonight, just two days before thanksgiving, six Democratic lawmakers, these six have the FBI to think about as in what FBI agents might ask them, how they might answer, whether they even should and how their answers could factor into a federal investigation. That is where we begin tonight, and it's someplace we have never been, not really with the Federal Bureau of Investigation seemingly inspired by the President of the United States seeking to interview not one, not two, but a half dozen House and Senate members from the opposition party. Not for anything they did, but something they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): The threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): But from right here at home.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You can refuse illegal orders.

DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law --

REP. MAGGIE GOODLANDER (D-NH): -- or our constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That notion was woven into the oaths that all six lawmakers took when they were in the military or intelligence community, and whether you think they needed to say what they said or were wise to speak out. The substance of what they were saying is factually correct. To the President, though, it amounted to treason, he said so online.

It's called seditious behavior at the highest level, he wrote. These traitors to our country should be arrested and put on trial or in the case of one of the six Arizona Senator, astronaut and retired Naval Aviator Mark Kelly, the possibility of being recalled to active duty and potentially to be court marshaled.

That is what Defense Secretary Hegseth is trying to do today. He ordered the Navy Secretary to review the matter and get back to him on it no later than December 10th. He also took a moment to taunt Senator Kelly online in a message showing a photo of Kelly's decorations, he writes, your medals are out of order, and rose and reversed when, if you are recalled to active duty, it will start with a uniform inspection.

Senator Kelly, meantime, had this to say about the controversy, the secretary, and the President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: I'm not going to be silenced. I'm not going to be intimidated. I mean, these two guys, they inform me of this in a in a tweet because this is not about the law. This is about the media cycle and it's about intimidation.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: He and the other five have also put out a joint statement which reads in part, no amount of intimidation or harassment will ever stop us from doing our jobs and honoring our constitution. An apropos of that, you would think the President would be totally on board with this sentiment, at least when it comes to not trampling on Anyone's free expression.

I mean, just listen to what he said back on January 20th, the very first hours of his second term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'll also sign an executive order to immediately end federal government censorship of the American people in America. We believe in free speech, and we're bringing it back starting today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And sign it he did, that very same day. It says in part over the last four years, the previous administration trampled free speech rights by censoring American speech on online platforms. The order continues. Government censorship of speech is intolerable in a free society.

With us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. He's also the former FBI assistant director of public affairs. John, how unusual is an FBI investigation like this seeking to question six sitting lawmakers and what laws might they have broken?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. Well, it's really unusual because it is entirely unclear whether any law has been broken here. And if you look at the FBI standards for this, the FBI's domestic investigative operations guide, basically the bureau's bible when it comes to staying on the right side of civil rights in the First Amendment, it says, and I'm quoting now from the training material that they give at the FBI Academy training I had to go through and sign off on.

[20:05:28]

No investigative activity, including assessments, may be taken solely on the basis of activities that are protected by the First Amendment. So, basically these elected officials saying to members of the military and the intelligence community, don't obey any illegal order is not just covered by free speech in the First Amendment. It's also, they're code in the military code of justice. But here's the weird part, for the FBI to go and question them probably have to obey an illegal order going against FBI policy to do it. We're in a political morass here.

[20:05:13]

BERMAN: Do you think any other FBI would have done this, or the FBI or any other FBI director? MILLER: No, that's a solid no. I mean, they would they would first say, well, what are they being accused of? Now, the speech and debate clause is critical here because here's where you find, you know, the hidden gems that are being unearthed here. If the FBI shows up and says, we want to question all six of you separately, what if they say, no, I refuse. Then they could get a grand jury subpoena.

But to subpoena them before a grand jury, of course, they would be able to invoke the Fifth Amendment, but that's covered by the speech and debate clause. Members of Congress are immune from almost any kind of law enforcement, as long as they are acting in their capacity as elected officials and making their speech as a member of Congress.

So, the only exception to that is crimes like treason, which is probably why the people around the Trump administration, starting with the President of the United States, are throwing out words like sedition and treason and death penalty.

BERMAN: Very high bar there, though, to say the least.

MILLER: And hard to get there from what they said.

BERMAN: John Miller, great to see you. Thank you for explaining just how unusual this is.

With us now is congressman Jake Auchincloss, a Democrat from Massachusetts who is a Marine combat veteran.

Congressman, good to see you. Your Democratic Colleagues in the video said the President is using the FBI as a tool to intimidate and harass members of Congress. How do you see it?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-AZ):I agree. Patently absurd charges that any judge worth their robes is going to laugh out of the courtroom. Not only, though, is he using it as intimidation.

He's using these charges as a distraction. The American public was super clear, John. In November of 24 and again in November of 25, they want their elected officials working on an affordability agenda this week. This week they're going to be having Thanksgiving. It's going to be in homes where the rent and the mortgage payments have gone up. It's going to be in homes where the lighting and heat has gotten more expensive. It's going to around tables where the food has become pricier. This President is failing on his affordability promises, and he's trying to distract the American public from that mismanagement.

BERMAN: So, an entire FBI investigation, you think, is misdirection?

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, just as his saber rattling in Venezuela, where he's deployed an aircraft carrier, just as his deployment of U.S. Troops to American cities, it's all part of a pattern where he uses the military and the stature and the prestige of the armed forces to create a swirl and a media cycle that distracts the American public for a short amount of time from his economic failures. But inflation and affordability, it's like air pollution. Politicians, they can't lie about it and this President is going to find that the American voters are wise to his act, and they are going to seek to lame duck him next November because he has failed to lower prices.

BERMAN: Now, all of this comes as the Pentagon said they are investigating Senator Mark Kelly and threatened him with court martial proceedings. I want to play more of what the senator had to say about this last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: I wanted them to know that members of Congress understand that this President doesn't seem to care about the constitution, the rule of law. And I have to say, I don't think there's anything more patriotic than standing up for the constitution. And right here, right now, this week, the President clearly is not doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, as we mentioned, you are a Marine combat veteran. What kind of message do you think the troops are hearing in all of this? Both from the six lawmakers, but also from the administration's response?

AUCHINCLOSS: I think its demoralizing and undermines esprit de corps. One of the great honors I have as a member of congress is I get to speak to young men and women whom I nominate to the service academies. These are high schoolers who represent the best of America, and I tell every single one of them on my phone calls to remember that they do not swear an oath to a political party or to a person, but to the constitution of the united states. It is one of the many things that makes this nation the greatest nation in the history of the world.

And, what this President is doing is he undercuts that exceptional nature. He did it before when he deployed Marines from 29 Palms, where I used to serve to Los Angeles to act as a police force against fellow Americans. And he's trying to do it again now against members of Congress and patriots.

But again, John, the American public, they have a deep reservoir of common sense and decency, and they're seeing through a very tired act.

[20:10:59]

BERMAN: Congressman Jake Auchincloss from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, we do appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

Next, more on the political dimension on this, specifically when it comes to taking on a NASA astronaut and decorated combat fighter pilot. Did the President and defense secretary pick the wrong guy politically to mess with?

And Later, Anderson's conversation with a man who climbed Mount Everest but made history in how he unclimbed it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:15:59]

BERMAN: More now on our top story. The FBI seeking interviews with six Democratic lawmakers over a video posted to social media imploring military members not to follow illegal orders. Now, as we said, one of those lawmakers, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, has been threatened with a potential court-martial by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. This is more of Senator Kelly's reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: I've had a missile blow up next to my airplane. I've been shot down -- nearly shot down multiple times. I've flown a rocket ship into space four times, built by the lowest bidder. And my wife, Gabby Giffords, meeting with her constituents, shot in the head. Six people killed around her. I've been stressed by things more important than Donald Trump trying to intimidate me into shutting my mouth and not doing my job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Perspective now from former special adviser to President Obama, Van Jones, journalist and Lift Our Voices co-founder Gretchen Carlson and Republican strategist, former Trump campaign adviser David Urban.

Van, I'm going to start with you here. You're also a lawyer, among other things. We're talking about the FBI potentially interviewing lawmakers.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: About what?

BERMAN: That's my question to you.

JONES: Yes, mean, like, there's literally no law that's been broken, in fact, the opposite. You know, Congress people are protected when they when they speak and these Congress people are literally just saying what the law is. If they come out and say, even if they come out and said, we think that you should disobey every order, that's still not illegal. It's stupid, but it's not illegal.

And so, what you're talking about now is a new standard is being set. This is unprecedented territory for the federal government for the President of United States to start policing the speech of elected officials. And by the way, what if they refuse to talk to the FBI?

BERMAN: Do you think they should?

JONES: I think somebody should be walking through this and war-gaming out. You are now in a potential constitutional crisis because you have the executive authority exceeding its authority bounds and forcing the Congress to either go along with this farce or stick up for itself. Either way, you're playing with real fire. BERMAN: Aggression from a purely political standpoint, what do you think of the enemy, the White House chose here the primary one? Senator Mark Kelly, a veteran, a former astronaut, husband of Gabby Gifford's, popular senator, seemingly from a key swing state, you know, could who they picked here backfire on.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST AND LIFT OUR VOICES CO-FOUNDER: Politically stupid, I mean, this is a senator who is likely going to run for President on the Democratic side in 2028. And what the White House is doing right now is they're increasing his name recognition to being somebody that most people in America might know now.

That's exact opposite of what you want to do if you're on the Republican side of things. They're also increasing the sympathy vote for him based on what happened to his wife in that horrific shooting. Based on the fact that he has incredible credentials, and now people are going to get to know who this person is.

I think my favorite, though, tweet that happened in the last 24 hours was from a Republican Congressman, Don Bacon, who has not flinched very much on attacking Trump on foreign policy. But he -- amateur hour once again at the department of deaths, and I'll leave it at that.

BERMAN: David, you're a veteran, a bronze star recipient. What do you think of the road the President has chosen to go down?

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And a lawyer, John.

BERMAN: And a lawyer who I know has actually been involved with courts martial, I believe so. So, what do you think of the fact that the President has chosen to go down this road?

URBAN: Listen, listen. So, let's just put a pin in the President's part and let's just say what these six individuals did, this political theater was completely uncalled for when Senator Slotkin was asked about what did the President done that's illegal? She couldn't point to one thing. She couldn't point to a single thing that he that he did or suggested he done. Listen, people may not like the policy positions the President takes, but that doesn't mean they're illegal orders, there's a big difference. And what those six individuals did is try to drive a wedge between our service people and their President, and that's just wrong and they should admit it's wrong.

Listen, there have been there have been people who I don't agree with. Democrats on many things, and they've come out and said, look, this is a little bit too far. They should walk it back, Mark Kelly, instead of thumping his chest like a big war hero, tough guy, should just say, listen, we made a mistake.

Shouldn't have done that bad on us, right. That's what they need to do. They made a mistake by doing this. Listen, you want to talk about problems. But illegal President Barack, Obama --

BERMAN: David and you've been involved with courts martial, but illegal. Is this is there any legal basis to press this case against Senator Kelly? URBAN: So, listen, so as you correctly point out, I was a one man grand jury, what's called an article 32 hearing officer in the United States Army, so the Army under the uniform code of military justice, there is not a grand jury. So, for probable cause determinations, they have an article 32 hearing officer. So, I would sit and listen to the prosecution and defense prosecutors present their case. The defense will present their side, and I'd make a determination whether someone would face a court martial.

And in this instance, I think that that's, you know, it's probably pretty tough to find a person that would say, there's something under the Uniform Code of Military Justice that this would violate. Now, that doesn't mean it's really stupid. It's really bad what they did. They should still, they should apologize. But do I think there's something justiciable under the UCMJ? Probably not.

Listen, Barack Obama as you as you well remember, killed -- Hold on just Barack Obama killed an American citizen, an American citizen with a drone strike in Yemen. No, no due process there. Nobody was talking about anything about what Barack Obama did there and these six senators get on and talk about wiping out some narcotraffickers and they get all bent?

JONES: Hold one a second. I just look, I appreciate what you said there's no law being violated here. There's nobody with a bar card can say that there is. So, I appreciate that, but I just don't get what this reaction is. They did not accuse President Trump directly of doing anything. They said you don't have to obey illegal orders.

URBAN: They're very slick.

BERMAN: Hang on there, I do want to ask. Again, because it has to do with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, former Fox News Host there. He has been taking up a lot of time in his day being defense secretary, talking about Mark Kelly and he had this tweet today where he put up a picture of Mark Kelly displaying medals on his uniform, criticizing the order in which the medals were posted there.

And I guess my question is, is this really what the Defense Secretary should be doing? And it's worth noting that the army secretary, his subordinate, is overseas trying to work out a Ukraine-Russia peace deal. I don't know if that means that the President thinks one guy is better for certain things than the other.

CARLSON: Okay, let me be clear, these Democrats probably should not have done this video, but then you could also turn it around and say --

URBAN: There you go, thanks.

CARLSON: That it was smart because it's because it's elevating. It's elevating these Democrats, Slotkin and Kelly, both of whom probably want to run for President. It's elevating them because Trump just can't control himself to not come after them. Back to Pete Hegseth, yes, you would think that in this world that we live in right now with the Ukraine and Russia deal potentially right on the table, that there would be bigger things for him to be spending his time on. But the problem is this administration is fixated with going after their political enemies instead of focusing on, oh, let me think, the economy, which is what Republicans and Independents voted this President in to handle, and he promised that on his first day he would reduce prices of groceries. That has yet to happen and that's what this administration should be focusing on.

BERMAN: Gretchen Carlson, Van Jones, David Urban.

URBAN: Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks, Bye.

BERMAN: A new report from Bloomberg on a leaked transcript of a call with a top Trump aide advising the Kremlin how to get President Trump to agree to a peace plan.

And the thrill of a lifetime, Anderson talks to the skier who took on Mount Everest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:29:37]

BERMAN: All right a new report tonight from Bloomberg on the behind the scenes process to work out a U.S. backed peace deal between Russia and Ukraine and new reaction to it just before airtime from the President. Bloomberg has a transcript of what it says was an October 14th phone call between President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, and a top aide to Russian President Putin.

His name is Yuri Ushakov. Witkoff appears to instruct the Kremlin official on how Putin should approach Trump. Basically, how to sweet talk Trump into a deal.

Witkoff advises Ushakov to have Putin call Trump, and Witkoff reportedly says Yuri, Yuri, here's what I would do, my recommendation..

[20:30:23]

Ushakov replies, "Yes please." Witkoff says, "I would make the call and just reiterate that you congratulate the President on this achievement" -- he's talking about the Israel-Hamas deal -- "that you supported it, you supported it and you respect that he's a man of peace and you're just -- you're really glad to have seen it happen."

The two men then continue their conversation. Ushakov says, "Hey Steve, I agree with you that he will congratulate. He will say that Mr. Trump is a real peace man and so and so." And then Witkoff says, "Me to you, I know what it's going to take to get a peace deal done. Donetsk and maybe a land swap somewhere, but I'm saying instead of talking like that, let's talk more hopefully because I think we're going to get a deal here." Late tonight, the White House said this story proves that Witkoff talks to officials in both Russia and Ukraine nearly every day to achieve peace, which the President appointed him to do. And just a short time ago, aboard Air Force One, the President was asked about this. You're going to hear audio of that in just a second while you're watching live pictures of the plane landing now.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you heard this audio that Bloomberg has of Witkoff coaching the Russians on how to appeal to you and get on your good side?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I haven't heard it. No, but I -- that's a standard thing, you know, because he's got to sell this to Ukraine, he's got to sell Ukraine to Russia. That's what he's -- that's what a dealmaker does. You've got to say, look, they want this, you've got to convince them of this, you know, that's a very standard form of negotiation.

I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiation. And I would imagine he's saying the same thing to Ukraine, because each party has to give and take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: A reminder, no deal has been reached at this point, but in a post today on Truth Social, the President said tremendous progress has been made in fine-tuning the original 28-point peace plan and that there are only a few remaining points of disagreement. But a Ukrainian source tells CNN there are three major sticking points, whether Ukraine will agree to surrender territory to Russia, reduce the size of its army, and promise not to join NATO. Our source calls that third demand unacceptable.

The President is now sending Steve Witkoff to Moscow to meet with Putin face-to-face and says his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, might join that meeting. He is also sending Army Secretary Dan Driscoll to Ukraine to try to get both sides to reach that final agreement.

So there is a lot to discuss with CNN National Security Analyst Beth Sanner, a former Deputy Director Of National Intelligence and Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk. And Brett, I want to ask a little more about this Bloomberg reporting, this leaked transcript here, which happened before Zelenskyy was at the White House to ask for longer- range weapons that he didn't get.

Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick posted this on social media, responding to it, he said, "This is a major problem and one of the many reasons why these ridiculous sideshows and secret meetings need to stop. Allow Secretary of State Marco Rubio to do his job in a fair and objective manner."

So if someone is taking part in these high-level negotiations, what was your first reaction to that leaked transcript, to that interesting phone call?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Honestly, John, as a former official, former negotiator, my first reaction is some foreign intelligence service leaked this and they leaked it for a reason and, you know, you don't know if it's the full transcript, who knows. But that is a -- just a major -- I've honestly never seen something like this.

I've been on calls with Yuri Ushakov, usually on calls with Yuri Ushakov from the National Security Adviser's office in the West Wing, so, you know, this is a major breach. And I think if you separate the signal from the noise, though, John, I mean, we all -- I want to get to an agreement here.

And I've just been struck by, when I've been involved in international negotiations, I would sometimes say to my team, a quote from a founding father, Ben Franklin, "Never confuse motion with action or forward movement." Because international diplomacy, there's always a ton of motion, especially something like this, presidential calls, meetings, readouts, travel.

But you got to step back and say, are we actually moving forward on the objective? And right now, I see furious motion in all directions, but we seem to be right where we've been. There was a 28-point plan that leaned too forward for the Russians, Ukraine wouldn't accept.

We now have about an 18 or 19-point plan, leans a little bit towards Ukraine, Russia probably won't accept. So it seems like we're treading water. And sometimes just got to put your pencils down, let's regroup, reassess, talk to people like Beth, get an assessment from the intelligence community, where are we in this negotiation, and then regroup. Because right now, I just see this going sideways, if not backwards.

BERMAN: We don't have to talk to people like Beth, we can talk directly to her. She is with us right now.

[20:35:01]

And President Trump says he's sending Steve Witkoff to talk to Putin face-to-face, that he may send Jared Kushner as well. You know, if this Bloomberg reporting is correct and Witkoff was coaching Putin, how Putin should talk to Trump, is he the right point of contact here?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean I find -- what's interesting in the President's response to that was that this is a normal part of having negotiation. And it's absolutely true, and Brett can speak to this much better than I can. But it -- you know, you do have to talk to both sides about what the plan should be and what compromises need to be made.

But it's different when you're talking to one of the parties about not how to deal with Ukraine, but how to actually get your position into the President's of the United States' head. And that's like a completely different thing that we're talking about. And so, you know, I think it concerns me on a couple of levels that, you know, that this disclosure shows that Envoy Witkoff is really channeling the Russians. And when you look at the context, when you look at the tone, yes, part of that's negotiation, but then you look at what the plan actually says and how Alaska turned out, I mean, what a disaster.

And that was because of miscommunication, Witkoff misunderstanding where the Russians were, and that whole thing just imploded on the spot. Lunch canceled, people going home. So I think that's probably why Kushner is going along. But, again, are those the right people? Gaza's one thing, this is a completely different thing, and I think that they need some more experts in the room.

BERMAN: Brett McGurk, Beth Sanner, thank you both for being with us. Understanding, as Brett was saying, all the movement, all the motion we saw today and where we really have landed by tonight, the next two days could be very very telling. Thank you.

Up next, reliving an historic first on Mount Everest. Anderson talks with a man who did this, skied down the mountains hardest route for the very first time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:42:01]

BERMAN: All right, more breaking news. The U.S. Attorney's Office in Eastern Virginia is not sure what next steps it will take with regard to James Comey and Letitia James, now that a federal judge has tossed out their criminal cases. The judge ruled that interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan did not have a prosecutor's authority when she secured the grand jury indictments of them. So what's next?

With us now is Former Federal Prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. So Jeffrey, this district, you know, the U.S. Attorney's Office there doesn't have a legally appointed U.S. attorney. How hard is it for it to operate at all?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I thought we were talking about the time I skied down Mount Everest. The answer is this is a wall-to-wall fiasco. There are now so many ways that this case can be thrown out, and will be thrown out, that the failure to have an appointed U.S. attorney is only the immediate one, but there's a line of them behind that will lead to the end of this case, to be sure.

BERMAN: You know, Pam Bondi says that the Department of Justice will continue to pursue these cases. Is it clear how?

TOOBIN: Well --

BERMAN: Do they have a path?

TOOBIN: Well, she can appeal the judge's decision that says Halligan is not correctly appointed. If, in the unlikely event, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeal says, no, she was correctly appointed, she could presumably try to get another indictment. But yet another problem with this case is that the statute of limitations has lapsed on the Comey alleged false statement.

So it's not clear that an indictment could be valid under those grounds. That doesn't even count the selective prosecution issue and Halligan's apparent misconduct before the grand jury. Each of those is enough to get rid of these cases.

BERMAN: So according to CNN's reporting, Lindsey Halligan was nowhere to be found today.

TOOBIN: It's almost a holiday.

BERMAN: Well --

TOOBIN: Maybe she's gone.

BERMAN: But is it clear what happens to her now?

TOOBIN: Well, this is the problem. I mean, you know, this is not the only crime in the Eastern District of Virginia. They have to prosecute all sorts of federal crimes. All of those crimes require the signature of the U.S. attorney. She is now, according to the U.S. attorney -- according to the district court judge, not the U.S. attorney, there's a similar situation going on now in New Jersey where the district court said that under similar circumstances, the the U.S. attorney was not correctly appointed.

The circuit court issued a stay in that case, so the office is continuing to function. It's less certain what's going to happen in Virginia because there is no stay in effect and there is, as far as I can tell, no way for federal cases to be brought.

BERMAN: So chaos. You know, in 20 seconds or less, if you're attorneys for James Comey or Letitia James, what are you doing right now?

TOOBIN: Being happy. Because this -- the case at the moment is gone. The case has been thrown out.

[20:45:04]

Now, it was dismissed without prejudice. That means in theory it could be brought back, but when you look at the list of disasters that the Justice Department has wreaked on itself in this case, it's clear this case is going away one way or another. Both cases, both Tish James and Jim Comey.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, great to see you tonight.

TOOBIN: Happy Thanksgiving.

BERMAN: Now, the story you thought you were coming in for Mount Everest.

Just a fraction of the world's population has summited Mount Everest, but only one man, Jim Morrison, has skied down the most challenging route and he did it last month. And Academy Award Winning Director Jimmy Chin was there to document it all for an upcoming National Geographic film. Anderson spoke with both of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Jim, first of all, how did this idea get started?

JIM MORRISON, FIRST TO SKI DOWN MOUNT EVEREST'S MOST CHALLENGING ROUTE: Well, it's been a lifetime journey finding my way to this mountain, but it's the ultimate ski mountaineering descent. It's the biggest, raddest, longest, most technically difficult ski line on the planet, and I dreamed it up with my partner Hilaree, and we've been chasing this for a really long time.

COOPER: Hilaree was killed in 2022 in an avalanche.

MORRISON: She was.

COOPER: Yes. I'm very sorry for your loss. When you dreamed it up though, I mean, you look at a picture of what your descent is going to be, it looks to me like a straight line down.

MORRISON: Well, that's part of what's so special about it. It's aesthetically just a plumb line off the top of the tallest mountain in the world, and really it's the holy grail of skiing for me.

COOPER: And Jimmy, how did you get roped into this?

JIMMY CHIN, ACADEMY AWARD-WINNING FILM DIRECTOR: That's a good question. I've known -- I knew Hilaree since over 20 years, and we both signed on to the North Face team the same year. And they came to me in, I guess it was 2020, and proposed this idea. And I knew it was extremely audacious.

It's the most coveted ski mountaineering line in the world, and truly the most intimidating line in the world, too. And -- but I knew that if there was anybody in the world that could do it, it would be Jim and Hilaree. And, of course, I love telling stories about audacious dreams.

You know, it's the kind of project that consumes every part of your life. So for the last six years -- and I think we've been carrying the weight of, you know, the responsibility of the team, because it's an extraordinarily dangerous --

COOPER: Right.

CHIN: -- route.

COOPER: When you get -- when you guys get to the top, I mean, that's a huge celebration. Were you guys high-fiving, celebrating, taking pictures?

CHIN: I was getting to the summit, Jim had stepped up on top, and I was in director mode thinking, OK, we've thought about this, rehearsed in our minds, like, how we're going to coordinate the shots, drone shots, who's going to shoot, what shots do I need for the film. And --

MORRISON: That's not what happened.

CHIN: -- in that mindset, and when I crested the top and looked over into Nepal, I completely fell apart. I had a very emotional moment with Jim, just this pretty emotional release from this many years of dreaming about this line, and really not knowing ever if we were going to be able to pull it off.

Because it really is just -- it's an audacious climb to begin with --

COOPER: Yes.

CHIN: -- but then to get -- have Jim on the summit with his skis, and we just shared a moment, and I forgot about everything else supposed to come.

COOPER: Were you like, dude, pull it together. I still got to go down and do this thing, or?

MORRISON: No, I was --

COOPER: Were you in the moment too?

MORRISON: -- equally really emotional.

COOPER: OK.

MORRISON: We just put so much into it for so long and, you know, we failed numerous times. We weren't really sure if we would ever succeed, but we just kept going, and kept going, and kept going. And then when we got to the summit, and we had everybody together, it was a real emotional release.

I left some ashes there, and then they were high-fiving. They were taking selfies. And I shifted into this mindset of, I got to put my skis on, and get serious, and get focused, and ski down.

COOPER: And are you thinking, like, what is the altitude, what's the height of it?

MORRISON: 29,000 feet.

COOPER: I mean, I can't even imagine that -- like, does your brain function the way it should?

MORRISON: Well, we were using supplemental oxygen --

COOPER: Right.

MORRISON: --so that helps. You're very hypoxic, and everybody's working slowly, but we were very well prepared for it, mentally and physically, and there was a ton of training and effort that --

[20:50:06]

COOPER: So you put on the skis, you -- do you visualize the whole route before you start? What was that first --

MORRISON: I've thought about, read about, scoured every bit of information I could get about this route for a decade, and visualized it over, and over, and over, so many times, that I felt like I knew right where I was all the time on the route. And I was terrified at the same time.

CHIN: You know, the terrain he's on, literally from the very first turn, is what we call no-fall zone, where you cannot make a single mistake. And --

COOPER: If you fall, you can't stop.

CHIN: Yes, if you blow an edge, or you slip --

MORRISON: If you slip.

CHIN: You're gone. And literally from the very top of the mountain, for the first turn, 9,000 feet, he's exposed to no-fall zone.

COOPER: Is that because of the ice? Is that because just of the angle of the mountain?

MORRISON: It's a combination of both. It's very steep and unrelenting the whole time. There's never a spot where you can ski into a safe, casual area.

COOPER: Is there ever a moment -- I mean, again, I'm just looking at this video and it's just so extraordinary. The -- I can't even imagine walking down that slope. Is there ever a moment when you could enjoy it? I mean, maybe that's a dumb question, but like -- or feel, not safe, but feel, I got this.

MORRISON: I think that that became more and more clear as I made it down. There are certainly parts of it that are harder than others. And as I got into the lower two-thirds of the mountain, I got more and more confident. And as I got to the lowest part of the mountain, which is some of the steepest terrain on the whole mountain, I had more -- I felt more accustomed to my skis.

I haven't skied since last winter. I had knee surgery in April.

COOPER: Jeez. Wow.

MORRISON: So it's really my first real run since I had a partial knee replacement.

COOPER: Wow. Were your knee doctors like, dude, come on, what are you doing?

MORRISON: My doctor -- my doctors were --

COOPER: Did he sue you for malpractice?

MORRISON: -- incredible team members and they talked me into this, and they gave me a lot of confidence -- COOPER: Wow.

MORRISON: -- that this would work for me, and I mean, it's been a miraculous recovery --

COOPER: Yes.

MORRISON: -- and a new knee for me.

COOPER: And so how long, the entire descent, how long was that?

MORRISON: Took a little over four hours.

COOPER: Wow.

MORRISON: Yes. So for four hours, I was in that moment of extreme focus --

COOPER: You were on -- I mean, I was going to say a knife's edge, but I mean, you are on a life-or-death four-hour ride.

MORRISON: Yes, the edge of what is possible for me on skis.

COOPER: Wow. Incredible. And when it's done, I mean, what is that like?

MORRISON: When I got to the bottom?

COOPER: Yes.

MORRISON: When I crossed the bergschrund at the bottom and I skied onto safe terrain, I looked back up at the whole mountain. I could see 9,000 vertical feet. I thought about Hilaree. I cried. I screamed. I had just incredible emotional release.

And then I skied down into camp where my team was and part of the whole production team, part of the Sherpa team, and was just -- I couldn't understand how I could still stand up. I felt like I was going to collapse because it was just such a emotional release.

COOPER: Wow. It's extraordinary. I mean, it's just incredible. Yes, well, congratulations.

MORRISON: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Beyond incredible. By the way, every newscast is a no-fall zone.

Next, four new suspects in the Louvre heist, but still, no jewels.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:36] BERMAN: A major development tonight in the brazen jewel heist at the Louvre. French authorities have detained four more suspects. Details from Max Foster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the heist of the century. The theft in broad daylight of France's crown jewels. Now, more than five weeks since the audacious robbery at the Louvre Museum in Paris, four more suspects have been detained, French authorities announced on Tuesday, without releasing further details about possible charges.

The new suspects, two men aged 38 to 39 and two women, 31 and 40, all from the Paris region. They were detained by police as part of the investigation into the heist and allowed to be questioned by investigators, the Paris prosecutor said on Tuesday.

CNN Affiliate BFMTV reported that one of the suspects is the alleged fourth member of the gang that carried out the heist. Authorities say that four suspects stole more than $100 million worth of jewels in just seven minutes.

But they left many clues behind. Not just the equipment they used to get in, like this angle grinder, and the truck. Witnesses say they tried but failed to burn as they fled, but also a glove, a helmet, and one of the scooters they used to make their escape.

With more than 150 DNA traces left at the scene of the crime, a match was soon established. But whilst investigators now believe they know more about the suspected thieves, who they say were known for targeting jewelry stores, questions remain about who might have masterminded the operation. And still at large, the jewels that were stolen, the tiaras, necklaces, earrings, and brooches of the royalty of 19th century France.

Max Foster, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.