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Them mean old low down Joss Whedon blues
So last night I went to the midnight show of Avengers with DevilDoll, chicklet_girl, and girlinthetrilby (sorry I'm typing this on the iPad so I'm keeping coding to a minimum).
Short review: I FUCKING LOVED 99% of it. Which is typical of a Joss Whedon production. I will separate out the three things I didn't.
things I didn't like:
1. AGENT COULSON WE HARDLY KNEW YOU. I mean, he was the only one who could have been killed to satisfy Joss's stupid "we must have a beloved character die to show how serious the situation was" fetish (that's why I was glad Darcy was not in the movie), but I can think of a least three ways off the top of my head that they could have achieved the same effect without killing any of Our Heroes.
2. Cap's helmet. Why did they not stick with the helmet from his solo movie, slightly updated? That helmet was terrible! It made Chris Evans look jowly! WTF!?
3. Cap's line about god. Yes, I believe Steve Rogers is a good Irish catholic boy from Brooklyn who probably believes that (and no other character in this movie would), but it just felt jarring and out of place to me.
And a bonus fourth thing: ugh what was that terrible song over the credits? Chris Cornell I expect better of you!
things I loved:
ZOMG EVERYTHING!!!
PEPPER AND TONY BEING ALL OTP AND DOMESTIC. <3<3<3
HULK! Wow mark ruffalo was great. And now I want all the Tony and Bruce as SCIENCEBROS fic in the world. "Finally someone who speaks english."
NATASHA. OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW BADASS IS NATASHA ROMANOFF? She outfaced Loki the god of lies and plays him like a fiddle. I draw a million sparkly hearts around her (please do a winter soldier movie! Please?!).
STEVE GETTING A POP CULTURE REFERENCE. There actually wasn't nearly as much "oh, Steve" in the movie as Joss's interviews had indicated. I hope we see more in the deleted scenes. But I LOVED what there was of him, taking the lead of the team because THAT IS WHO HE IS. I also liked that a lot of the alpha male posturing was ratcheted up due to loki's stick.
Aw TONY. When he couldn't reach Pepper as he was saving the world. Aw. My heart.
CLINT. OH YOU POOR BRAINWASHED BABY. You are awesome!
I was really impressed with how he handled such a large cast of characters and gave them all things to do and nobody felt shortchanged and the different ways they paired off to fight really worked for me and that great Jossian dialogue.
I liked how they got Jane out of the way and wow I don't ship Thor/Loki but it felt like the movie did.
PEPPER AND COULSON AS BUDDIES AND TONY'S OUTRAGED REACTION. "PHIL? HIS FIRST NAME IS AGENT!" <3 <3 <3
There's a lot more that I loved but typing on this is making me a little crazy. Link me to your spoilers posts so I can read and wallow! We are seeing it again today so I should go take a shower now.
***
Short review: I FUCKING LOVED 99% of it. Which is typical of a Joss Whedon production. I will separate out the three things I didn't.
things I didn't like:
1. AGENT COULSON WE HARDLY KNEW YOU. I mean, he was the only one who could have been killed to satisfy Joss's stupid "we must have a beloved character die to show how serious the situation was" fetish (that's why I was glad Darcy was not in the movie), but I can think of a least three ways off the top of my head that they could have achieved the same effect without killing any of Our Heroes.
2. Cap's helmet. Why did they not stick with the helmet from his solo movie, slightly updated? That helmet was terrible! It made Chris Evans look jowly! WTF!?
3. Cap's line about god. Yes, I believe Steve Rogers is a good Irish catholic boy from Brooklyn who probably believes that (and no other character in this movie would), but it just felt jarring and out of place to me.
And a bonus fourth thing: ugh what was that terrible song over the credits? Chris Cornell I expect better of you!
things I loved:
ZOMG EVERYTHING!!!
PEPPER AND TONY BEING ALL OTP AND DOMESTIC. <3<3<3
HULK! Wow mark ruffalo was great. And now I want all the Tony and Bruce as SCIENCEBROS fic in the world. "Finally someone who speaks english."
NATASHA. OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW BADASS IS NATASHA ROMANOFF? She outfaced Loki the god of lies and plays him like a fiddle. I draw a million sparkly hearts around her (please do a winter soldier movie! Please?!).
STEVE GETTING A POP CULTURE REFERENCE. There actually wasn't nearly as much "oh, Steve" in the movie as Joss's interviews had indicated. I hope we see more in the deleted scenes. But I LOVED what there was of him, taking the lead of the team because THAT IS WHO HE IS. I also liked that a lot of the alpha male posturing was ratcheted up due to loki's stick.
Aw TONY. When he couldn't reach Pepper as he was saving the world. Aw. My heart.
CLINT. OH YOU POOR BRAINWASHED BABY. You are awesome!
I was really impressed with how he handled such a large cast of characters and gave them all things to do and nobody felt shortchanged and the different ways they paired off to fight really worked for me and that great Jossian dialogue.
I liked how they got Jane out of the way and wow I don't ship Thor/Loki but it felt like the movie did.
PEPPER AND COULSON AS BUDDIES AND TONY'S OUTRAGED REACTION. "PHIL? HIS FIRST NAME IS AGENT!" <3 <3 <3
There's a lot more that I loved but typing on this is making me a little crazy. Link me to your spoilers posts so I can read and wallow! We are seeing it again today so I should go take a shower now.
***
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NATASHA I CAN'T EVEN DEAL WITH HER PERFECTION. SHE TRICKED THE TRICKSTER GOD. ;alsdkja;jsd
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and wow I don't ship Thor/Loki but it felt like the movie did.
I know, right? I had just finished reading a really long Loki/Thor story before I went to the movie, so I was like, "Do I need to get my goggles recalibrated, or does it really look Thor wants to kiss Loki right now?" *Thor grabs Loki by the back of the head and reels him in really close* "ASdkjksdjfkdljfj it's not just me then."
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Also, I went to see it again tonight, and a girl a few rows back whispered "Make out!" during that bit, so it was definitely not just me.
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BUT THE POINT IS ALL OF THE PEOPLE SHOULD WRITE IT. IT SHOULD BE A WHOLE SUBGENRE OF AVENGERS FIC.
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Honestly, you can do with the first Iron Man movie (IM2 is optional, though it gives you more Coulson and Fury and introduces Natasha), Thor, and Captain America. I don't think you need to bother with either of the Hulk movies - you know who he is and what he does from Avengers. Basically, he is afraid of SHIELD and the armed forces because they like to shoot at the Other Guy a lot. *hands*
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i totally agree with your 'didn't like's. and you likes for that matter!
here is my post: http://the-oscar-cat.dreamwidth.org/622020.html
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~
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And YES, Magneto WISHES his helmet looks that cool.
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1. His death happens off-screen.
2. Maria flat out calls Fury on manipulating the situation to empower the Avengers to get their shit together.
3. Nobody dies in comics except Bucky and Uncle Ben...er, Uncle Ben.
(I still yelled "WHEDON, YOU ASSHAT!" in the theater. And was mostly drowned out by the bro on the other side of the room crying "Coulson!" like he was a tragic romance heroine watching his man get killed.)
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Seriously, I blurted out "G-ddamit, NO!" at that scene.
Musesfool, I'm just going to sit here and nod at everything in your post, because you're right about everything. The three annoying things, and then EVERYTHING THAT WAS FANTASTIC YAY.
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Nobody stays dead in the Marvelverse these days, except Uncle Ben.
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Though I am amused that it turns out to have been Marvel's call rather than Joss's. Another thing that makes me think he won't stay dead.
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Also I have issues with how badly the ball was dropped re: Cap & Cap things in general, which makes me sad because by rights he should be one of my favourites given how much I adore him in the comics and he just... isn't.
/feelings
My LJ post here has plenty of feelings in the comments. :)
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Oh? Tell me more? Because I really liked what they did with Steve here - there wasn't enough, and the dick-measuring with Tony went on a little too long, and obviously the costume was ...well, whatever - but overall I liked it! And him and Natasha! Now I actually want to read Steve/Natasha that ISN'T All About Bucky (though he certainly can join them once he's back).
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Also by completely removing any references to Bucky, it took away a lot of the consistency of characterisation between the two movies and, regardless of the medium, Bucky's death--and how he has to cope with losing his sidekick/partner in a world he doesn't know--is a massively formative part of his character. Hells bells, to Steve his best friend only died a few weeks ago. If there'd been ten years between Bucky's death and the time Steve was frozen in the ice, this characterisation might have been believable, but yeah, I don't know how much sense that makes but FEELINGS. This is just not my favourite Steve Rogers characterisation.
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Tony's reaction to Pepper and Coulson was AMAZING, and yet I completely forgot about it once the rest of the movie happened until you just said that. There's too much goodness in the movie for my brain to handle!
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"Phil? His name is AGENT!" <3 <3 <3
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I have no reaction post yet, though I did squee at people for hours in RL, and more hours in chat, which leads me to ask - do you know of a good Winter Soldier primer? For...reasons. Relating to fic. I figured you were the person to ask.
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I think for Winter Soldier the best thing is just to read the story? It's only 14 issues - the first 14 of Captain America vol. 5 (15 if you count Winter Soldier: Winter Kills, which is a great issue!).
Otoh, the Marvel character bio hits the high points, though it completely glosses over his relationship with Natasha, both in the Red Room days and in the narrative present. This bio is more detailed. Though obviously, they're both based on his comics backstory of being 4 years younger than Steve and not growing up with him in Brooklyn.
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